Topic: MK1 Rabbit help (Read 297 times)

.:Reaper · « **on:** June 23, 2011, 03:33:31 PM »

OK were dealing with an 84 Rabbit

new Wires
new Plugs
new Cap
new Rotor

it was running perfect until my second tank of gas on the new set of ignition parts, now it will miss a couple times under easy or hard acceleration.
I went through it today and looked at
Wireset: made sure all the connections were solid.
Distributor Cap and Rotor: both showing normal wear and making contact
Plugs: checked gap on each one
Ignition coil: Used a multimeter to check tolerances, everything checked out.

it seemed like an ignition/timing issue but now im not so sure. The only thing that was done differently from the first tank of gas was that this tank was 91 shell fuel. But i have doubts about how that would effect it.

ideas?

101stvet · « **Reply #1 on:** June 23, 2011, 07:22:25 PM »

There a Cam? And mine runs like shit when i use crappy gas, i run prem in it and it's fine , alittle miss here and there but thats the cam.

I'd double check your timing, make sure the intank fuel pump/filter isn't clogged. Could pull injectors and check there flow clean them while your at. Clean the fuel dizzy and plate also making sure nothing is sticking.....

.:Reaper · « **Reply #2 on:** June 23, 2011, 07:25:55 PM »

well i dont have any modifications. But if it is the cam i wont worry about it. however i will check the timing, and replace the fuel filter.

now when you say plate your meaning that lil bastard inside the intake right?

101stvet · « **Reply #3 on:** June 23, 2011, 09:18:35 PM »

By plate i mean the air plate , they get dirty and stick clean it with carb cleaner really good needs tobe done every once in awhile.

And your grounds are all good? i had old ground wires and had issue once i got new ones alot of my electrical issues went away.

And if you pull your back seat (bottom) you will see a plate will three screws take that off under that you will see you fuel sending unit , i'm not sure if the 84 gti's had a intank pump or not. My 84 Cabby does but i was told it didn't. And when it dies it starts out sounding like a miss and slowly gets worse and then finally it'll die cause you over heat you external pump.

Greg or smoke could give you more insight have way more knowledge then me about the MK1s

.:Reaper · « **Reply #4 on:** June 23, 2011, 09:42:40 PM »

gotcha. I'll get on that in the morning. and well take it one step at a time. I think i looked at the tank at one point but couldnt see how the fuel sending unit came out. due to gauge not working.

Smokestack · « **Reply #5 on:** June 23, 2011, 10:04:31 PM »

I don't know shit about mk1s, but I'll give it a shot.

Things it could be:
Bad plug wires- Cheap plug wires from Autozone/Checker/Advanced don't last for shit. For a good example, the previous owner of my wife's car replaced the plug wires with cheapies from a local parts store. I had to change the valve cover and moving them out of the way which caused a break in the insulation and now the No. 2 cylinder is not firing. Probably one of the other ones as well, but they're all getting replaced with a good Bosch set ASAP.
In tank fuel pump and/or pickup- All CIS cars have two pumps. The in tank pump supplies fuel to the main pump which bumps the fuel pressure up to the 100psi CIS needs to operate. If you loose the in tank pump the car will still run, but the main pump will start to burn out, especially at low fuel levels. There's a plastic spider looking pickup in mk1 tanks that will give similar symptoms when it starts to disintegrate. Either one will give low performance and lean misses increasing as the fuel level goes down. Going around turns quickly will exaggerate the problems too.

More than likely it's the plug wires. If you haven't gotten a good Bosch set from Bap or ECS, get one. You can try checking it by idling the engine at night, in a dark parkinglot, and use a spray bottle and mist water over the plug wires. If you see sparks your wires are bad. You can also check the in tank pump by hot wiring it to see if it runs, but don't pull it out of the fuel to do so; you'll burn it up. The two pumps are wired in tandem too so be sure to disconnect them from each other while testing.

.:Reaper · « **Reply #6 on:** June 23, 2011, 10:15:25 PM »

Alright, i can check the wires tonight and yes...I'll admit it...i skimped...sham e on me, go for another -1000 Karma.
i get paid on the first so i will spend the cash and not screw it up this time. (damn cheap ass parts)

as for the fuel pump, itll be alright if i just run a positive straight from the battery to the pump itself? or does it run on less than 12v?

101stvet · « **Reply #7 on:** June 23, 2011, 11:26:42 PM »

First off how in the fuck do u have more smite then me..mutherfuck a...

And yea the intank pumps are junk,germanautoparts.com had them for $50 i think , and u can here it bzzing if it is working

and yea buy oem wires and good plugs something i learned along time ago, plus they will fit right and not allover the damn place like the cheap ones...

.:Reaper · « **Reply #8 on:** June 24, 2011, 12:35:43 AM »

i have no idea how i have more smite. But i have a shit ton of it

and the intank pump was whirring when i had her running in the parking lot. no sparks from the cables but I'll still get good ones.

its interesting, the ends going to the dizzy are the same style as the connections to the plugs......did nt look very efficient and i doubt its making good contact. so I'll start there.

rotundapig · « **Reply #9 on:** June 24, 2011, 06:18:48 AM »

I had a similar issue with my rabbit and it turned out to be that the plug wires would get loose on the distributor and eventually pop off. They were pretty cheap, too.

Also my 84 rabbit doesn't have an in tank pump (didn't have one when it was CIS either).

The Asshole · « **Reply #10 on:** June 24, 2011, 07:03:44 AM »

be sure to return the old wires as defective...

Smokestack · « **Reply #11 on:** June 24, 2011, 08:33:45 AM »

Quote from: rotundapig on June 24, 2011, 06:18:48 AM

Also my 84 rabbit doesn't have an in tank pump (didn't have one when it was CIS either).

Like I said, I don't know shit about mk1s. Every CIS car I've messed with has had two pumps.

If you hear the in tank pump it should be just fine. When they go bad it's because either the electric motor seized or you somehow ran the pump dry for a long time and wore out the pump parts (you'd have to truly be blond to do something like that.)

scurvy_bandit · « **Reply #12 on:** June 24, 2011, 10:14:46 AM »

MK1's just have a single pump hanging out beside the tank. There is also the accumulator that can go bad as well as the tank itself. You might want to pull the fuel line off the pump and see what the stuff looks like coming out of your fuel tank. I can clean fuel at the injectors on my caddy, but the crap coming out of the tank looked like trash water.

You can put any MK1 pump in or you can even retrofit a volvo turbo pump or even a walboro. Im running a walboro on my caddy and it got me to vegas and back last year no problems.

.:Reaper · « **Reply #13 on:** June 24, 2011, 11:12:59 AM »

All good except my tank was whirring. And if the pump runs in tank and the one out of tank cold be lack if pressure. Gotta check that today.

scurvy_bandit · « **Reply #14 on:** June 24, 2011, 04:31:43 PM »

If you have a regular MK1, there isnt a fuel pump in the tank.

.:Reaper · « **Reply #15 on:** June 24, 2011, 05:10:56 PM »

Quote from: scurvy_bandit on June 24, 2011, 04:31:43 PM

If you have a regular MK1, there isnt a fuel pump in the tank.

Yessir I stand corrected. I found that lil bastard under the body on the passenger side. Fuel looked go on both sides. However the intake flapper was gummed up and my air filter was soaked with oil??? Getting that fixed soon. And I pulled the airbox to clean the main ground and its all shiny now.

101stvet · « **Reply #16 on:** June 24, 2011, 06:39:19 PM »

Quote from: .:Reaper on June 24, 2011, 05:10:56 PM

Quote from: scurvy_bandit on June 24, 2011, 04:31:43 PM
If you have a regular MK1, there isnt a fuel pump in the tank.

Yessir I stand corrected. I found that lil bastard under the body on the passenger side. Fuel looked go on both sides. However the intake flapper was gummed up and my air filter was soaked with oil??? Getting that fixed soon. And I pulled the airbox to clean the main ground and its all shiny now.

I'd check for the intank pump seriously everyone told me i didn't have one sold the car cause it(Didn't know jack or shit about MK1 at the time) wouldn't run , bought it back first thing i did was pull the seat and look and sure as shit there was alittle lift pump with a round filter on the end , plus the pump outside on the passenger rear....

the pic is basically what it looks like, i'd look casue when i searched i got yes/no as answears to a 84 gti having one or not...

[attachment deleted by admin]

.:Reaper · « **Reply #17 on:** June 24, 2011, 07:04:07 PM »

Yeah except mine only has two wires in a clip poking out of it. No feed tubes. Unless I have to drop the tank for it.

101stvet · « **Reply #18 on:** June 24, 2011, 10:07:13 PM »

Well, if theres no tubes coming out of the top then your good,The external pump shouldn't make hardly any noise if its good.

The good plug wires have the metal outter cover on the ends that plug into the spark plugs, and the ends that go on the cap should be a bitch toget on use alittle electric grease on both ends.

And whatever you do do not touch your air/fuel settings will only make your life a living hell.

I run a set of NJK plugs can't remeber which right now and they seem to be pretty good, the Bosch i kept getting would foul out after 2,500 miles or so..

Also do you have a WIDE OPEN THROTTLE SWITCH it'll be on the throttle body right by the throttle linkage i know they can go bad and not give you full throttle...the re's a simple tet for that..

Smokestack · « **Reply #19 on:** June 25, 2011, 08:28:06 AM »

Quote from: .:Reaper on June 24, 2011, 07:04:07 PM

Yeah except mine only has two wires in a clip poking out of it. No feed tubes. Unless I have to drop the tank for it.

There will be an access panel above the tank in the passenger compartment. It'll either be under the back seat or in the hatch/trunk area. If it has 3 or 4 wires going into it you have an in tank pump. If it has only 2 there's only a fuel level sensor in the tank.

I've seen several sets of cheap and busted plug wires with the metal cover. I'm dealing with one right now. Only the brand is a really good indicator on how good they are.

101stvet · « **Reply #20 on:** June 25, 2011, 02:14:53 PM »

Quote from: Smokestack on June 25, 2011, 08:28:06 AM

Quote from: .:Reaper on June 24, 2011, 07:04:07 PM
Yeah except mine only has two wires in a clip poking out of it. No feed tubes. Unless I have to drop the tank for it.

There will be an access panel above the tank in the passenger compartment. It'll either be under the back seat or in the hatch/trunk area. If it has 3 or 4 wires going into it you have an in tank pump. If it has only 2 there's only a fuel level sensor in the tank.

I've seen several sets of cheap and busted plug wires with the metal cover. I'm dealing with one right now. Only the brand is a really good indicator on how good they are.

Yep , I get Bosch from a local German parts supplier here, the actual german bosch parts are so much better then the cheap american ones....

.:Reaper · « **Reply #21 on:** June 25, 2011, 03:03:04 PM »

the carb cleaner air plate and air filter combo smoothed it out.

I do have a set with the metal boots. But they are auto lites. On the first I'll swap em for a Bosch set. Then I think all will be fixed and then I'll just have electrical crap to fix. Like temp gauge and fuel gauge.

101stvet · « **Reply #22 on:** June 25, 2011, 03:21:39 PM »

TEMP/FUEL most likly is the electrical connection on the back is loose or dirty , or like mine the wires need to pulled and re-seated in the clip. put your fingers between the dash and knee board under the right side and you should feel a plug with 15 or so wires going into it wiggle them around and see if they come back to life...

.:Reaper · « **Reply #23 on:** June 25, 2011, 09:49:51 PM »

Ok the wiggle idea didn't work. But thanks to a cluster Dave sold me a while back I canabalised the flex board from the back. Now. My old flex board was toast burnt spots in several places. Dave's didn't. So I plug it all in after reassembly and now the oil light and battery light are on and rapidly flickering when the car is running. Gas gauge works but shows completely full. Can't remember if it is or not I'll I'll hit a gas station and check.

The new board is out of a diesel cluster and I swapped the glow plug light for an oxy sensor light. That works fine.

Is this a huge ground issue or new alternator issue? the wires from the alternator have been taped up so I'll tear into them tomorrow...

101stvet · « **Reply #24 on:** June 25, 2011, 10:05:14 PM »

Oil light flickering could be the sensor is junk , there not really great anyway and should go out after a few seconds unless something is wrong...

Alt light , well never hurts to build new wires for it and make sure connections are good and tight, plus have it tested or put a multi meter on the batt terms with it running should read 13.80volts give or take, mine with a new Alt and optima runs 14.25volts at about 2k rpms... i also upped my wire gauge when i did the new wires, factory where old and kinda thin...

Your grounds are gonna be as follows.

Driverside / back of head to fire wall

Driverside / hood to fender (not sure why but it's there)

Driverside / Transmission <-- i've seen them all ran differently just makesure you have one from trans to the body.

Mine had one on the Pass side also when i had the emissions stuff still connected. Manifold to shock tower if i remeber.

And theres another one but i can't remeber.

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Author Topic: MK1 Rabbit help (Read 297 times)