Topic: Lost Clutch 04 GOLF TDI (Read 151 times)

VWI_DDUVALL · « **on:** December 13, 2010, 12:11:24 PM »

Hello I am part of the PPVWC club and own a 04 GOLF TDI. I was pointed here by some of the members of PPVWC stating some one here might have more info on my problem.

I have a real soft and easy to push clutch pedal that will not disengage the clutch.
Things I have done:
Replaced the slave bled system till no air comes out.
Verified that the slave is actually pushing the Clutch release lever and it is.

Does any one know what has happen my guess is that either the pressure plate has failed or something with the DMF or even the Clutch release lever is bent.
Either way I will probably have to remove the trans.

If I have to replace the clutch assembly i have been advised to convert to the SMF setup.

Any advice or ideas are gratefully welcomed.

Daniel Du Vall
http://volkswageninsanity.us

P.S. sorry if I posted this in the wrong area could not find anything that was a better fit.

Barry · « **Reply #1 on:** December 13, 2010, 01:43:05 PM »

Dan,

First off... welcome!

Secondly,

I will say that the VW hydraulic clutch systems are a real pain in the dick to get right.

I watched my little brother, who is a master VW mechanic work on a mkIV clutch system for well over 2 hours, and he was using a power bleed system that pressurizes the resevoir and pushes the fluid out from the bleeder.

All I can say is stay at it, and keep bleeding. When I changed the clutch in my mkIII I also changed my slave cylinder, and it probably took me 2 or 3 hours to bleed out the system with a mightyvac I bought at harbor freight.

Dont forget, the clutch system uses the same resevoir as the brake system.

Good luck!

Smokestack · « **Reply #2 on:** December 13, 2010, 02:22:09 PM »

I've never had much of an issue with hydraulic systems before. If there's an issue with it it's usually due to leaks in the system or a failing master/slave cylinder. If it's not disengaging then it's either not getting enough throw from one of those two issues or the pressure plate failed. The "free" way to check is to pull apart the engine and transmission to visually check the pressure plate (more than likely what needs to happen). The easier yet more expensive way is to replace the master cylinder, slave cylinder, and the line that connects them (car this new I doubt this is it). I'm under the understanding you don't see any leaks in the system.

The dual mass flywheel is Volkswagen's attempt at making their cars feel smoother when running. They took the flywheel and turned it into a giant fluid dampener. In theory it's not a bad idea. The problem with them is they have a tendency to leak fluid out all over the clutch plate and/or break under high HP/TQ applications since it's not a solid piece of metal anymore. Unless it exploded and sent chunks into your pressure plate causing it to never disengage, I doubt this is your problem. If the DMF failed your clutch would never stop slipping. If you want to change it out (a good idea) you'll need a flywheel off of a 4cylinder VW that had a cable shift/hydraulic clutch transmission built before 98. The G60 corrado and 16v passat are two good donors. ECS Tuning has kits with solid mas (solid steel) flywheels and clutches. I'm not sure how many miles you have on your car, but being almost 7 years old it might not be too bad of an idea to change the clutch out.

VWI_DDUVALL · « **Reply #3 on:** December 13, 2010, 04:07:13 PM »

Quote from: Smokestack on December 13, 2010, 02:22:09 PM

I've never had much of an issue with hydraulic systems before. If there's an issue with it it's usually due to leaks in the system or a failing master/slave cylinder. If it's not disengaging then it's either not getting enough throw from one of those two issues or the pressure plate failed. The "free" way to check is to pull apart the engine and transmission to visually check the pressure plate (more than likely what needs to happen). The easier yet more expensive way is to replace the master cylinder, slave cylinder, and the line that connects them (car this new I doubt this is it). I'm under the understanding you don't see any leaks in the system.

The dual mass flywheel is Volkswagen's attempt at making their cars feel smoother when running. They took the flywheel and turned it into a giant fluid dampener. In theory it's not a bad idea. The problem with them is they have a tendency to leak fluid out all over the clutch plate and/or break under high HP/TQ applications since it's not a solid piece of metal anymore. Unless it exploded and sent chunks into your pressure plate causing it to never disengage, I doubt this is your problem. If the DMF failed your clutch would never stop slipping. If you want to change it out (a good idea) you'll need a flywheel off of a 4cylinder VW that had a cable shift/hydraulic clutch transmission built before 98. The G60 corrado and 16v passat are two good donors. ECS Tuning has kits with solid mas (solid steel) flywheels and clutches. I'm not sure how many miles you have on your car, but being almost 7 years old it might not be too bad of an idea to change the clutch out.

The car has 101K on it.
I see no leaks and I know that the bleeding of these things can take quite a bit of time.
I pumped quite a bit of fluid through and the slave seems to be moving the clutch release lever quite a bit from what I can see using the access hole on the other side from the slave.
I used a clear hose and watched it till no more air was in it then continued for a bit longer to make sure.
But I guess since I have 101K on this car I might as well crack open the clutch area and inspect and do the clutch.

VWI_DDUVALL · « **Reply #4 on:** December 13, 2010, 04:11:02 PM »

Quote from: Barry on December 13, 2010, 01:43:05 PM

Dan,

First off... welcome!

Secondly,

I will say that the VW hydraulic clutch systems are a real pain in the dick to get right.

I watched my little brother, who is a master VW mechanic work on a mkIV clutch system for well over 2 hours, and he was using a power bleed system that pressurizes the resevoir and pushes the fluid out from the bleeder.

All I can say is stay at it, and keep bleeding. When I changed the clutch in my mkIII I also changed my slave cylinder, and it probably took me 2 or 3 hours to bleed out the system with a mightyvac I bought at harbor freight.

Dont forget, the clutch system uses the same resevoir as the brake system.

Good luck!

Thanks for the welcome :-)
I have been looking at this kit if I end up doing the whole thing:
http://www.idparts.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=76_102&products_id=860

Smokestack · « **Reply #5 on:** December 13, 2010, 08:33:47 PM »

Quote from: VWI_DDUVALL on December 13, 2010, 04:11:02 PM

I have been looking at this kit if I end up doing the whole thing:
http://www.idparts.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=76_102&products_id=860

That's not too bad as long as you need a clutch like that. What have you got done or are planning to do to your car?

VWI_DDUVALL · « **Reply #6 on:** December 13, 2010, 09:54:39 PM »

Quote from: Smokestack on December 13, 2010, 08:33:47 PM

Quote from: VWI_DDUVALL on December 13, 2010, 04:11:02 PM
I have been looking at this kit if I end up doing the whole thing:
http://www.idparts.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=76_102&products_id=860

That's not too bad as long as you need a clutch like that. What have you got done or are planning to do to your car?

Not much at this time but am moving to Texas this summer and the sky is the limit where we will live. Plus I have a wife who is a little hard on the clutch ;-)

VWI_DDUVALL · « **Reply #7 on:** January 15, 2011, 05:13:49 PM »

Well just an update.
I knew I had bled the slave cylinder well enough. I probably did not need to replace it in the first place O well.
Looks like I have a massive failure in the pressure plate and possibly more once I get the rest of it apart.

Here are some link to photos of the clutch still on the motor:

http://volkswageninsanity.us/Postings/TDI-Cluch/IMG_0503.JPG

http://volkswageninsanity.us/Postings/TDI-Cluch/IMG_0506.JPG

http://volkswageninsanity.us/Postings/TDI-Cluch/IMG_0509.JPG

http://volkswageninsanity.us/Postings/TDI-Cluch/IMG_0511.JPG

http://volkswageninsanity.us/Postings/TDI-Cluch/IMG_0513.JPG

I will post some of the assembly dissembled. I bet it will not be pretty.

Now know what clutch kit I want to get:
http://www.idparts.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=76_102&products_id=860
The question is lighten or not to lighten.
I think the factory setup is 22 pounds and the kit comes with a 21 or 14 pound.
This is my daily driver and we sometimes pull a light trailer with it for long trips cross country.

Any one have any input?

Smokestack · « **Reply #8 on:** January 15, 2011, 07:25:53 PM »

Wow, looks like clutch material chuncked off and wedged itself into the pressure plate. Generally most people with TDI's like to keep a heavier flywheel to help absorb some of the vibrations, but a 14# isn't that light. With a stage 2 clutch you may as well go with it. I doubt you'd really notice extra or harsher vibrations.

Lovesthedubs · « **Reply #9 on:** January 15, 2011, 08:16:55 PM »

I know its not the same thing, but my 1.8t's clutch went out at 50k.... hated the dmf setup so i went with the standard VR6 conversion that ecs sells.....

smf will have a "harsher" engagement but it holds up way better imo

VWI_DDUVALL · « **Reply #10 on:** January 15, 2011, 08:34:22 PM »

Definitely going SMF. The kit I am looking at is SMF just having a tough time deciding on the 21 or 14# its 8# difference from stock and don't want to end up have something that is way sensitive my wife drives this car some times and I can just here the complaints ;-) I would love it i think I have a lightened flywheel in my 1915 cc BUG motor.

Smokestack · « **Reply #11 on:** January 15, 2011, 11:27:25 PM »

I run a 14# in my jetta and it feels stockish. The 7# would be touchy though.

The Asshole · « **Reply #12 on:** January 16, 2011, 08:21:52 AM »

imho, i'm not sure i would lighten a flywheel in a car that only revs to 4500rpm... yeah you'll get a faster acceleration but you'll also shift and downshift more often as well.

VWI_DDUVALL · « **Reply #13 on:** January 16, 2011, 08:23:42 AM »

Quote from: The Asshole on January 16, 2011, 08:21:52 AM

imho, i'm not sure i would lighten a flywheel in a car that only revs to 4500rpm... yeah you'll get a faster acceleration but you'll also shift and downshift more often as well.

Thanks that is the sorta of information i am looking for to help in deciding.

VWI_DDUVALL · « **Reply #14 on:** January 16, 2011, 06:55:07 PM »

Smokestack · « **Reply #15 on:** January 17, 2011, 01:32:19 AM »

Should be a triple square bit for the flywheel (not a torx). Think inverted twelve point socket and you can find a el cheapo set at Autozone for ~$12. BAP can probably get you a good set.

VWI_DDUVALL · « **Reply #16 on:** January 17, 2011, 07:06:40 AM »

Quote from: Smokestack on January 17, 2011, 01:32:19 AM

Should be a triple square bit for the flywheel (not a torx). Think inverted twelve point socket and you can find a el cheapo set at Autozone for ~$12. BAP can probably get you a good set.

Thanks!
I am in Castle Rock where is BAP ?
Other wise I might as well get a few cheapo ones and not worry about destroying them. ;-)

Smokestack · « **Reply #17 on:** January 17, 2011, 12:03:40 PM »

Bap Geon is in Colorado Springs on Austin Bluffs and Meadowland Blvd. The Autozone ones work fine. I keep putting off buying nice ones because my cheapos still work fine.

VWI_DDUVALL · « **Reply #18 on:** January 17, 2011, 12:18:34 PM »

Quote from: Smokestack on January 17, 2011, 12:03:40 PM

Bap Geon is in Colorado Springs on Austin Bluffs and Meadowland Blvd. The Autozone ones work fine. I keep putting off buying nice ones because my cheapos still work fine.

Any idea what the size is 10MM or 12MM I found one site that says 12MM but it sure don't look like 12MM

Smokestack · « **Reply #19 on:** January 17, 2011, 12:24:34 PM »

I want to say 12,but can't remember for sure.

Lovesthedubs · « **Reply #20 on:** January 17, 2011, 05:55:26 PM »

I dont know that i would use an impact on flywheel bolts..... if you dont detorque them right you can warp the rear main.... is that accurate?

VWI_DDUVALL · « **Reply #21 on:** January 17, 2011, 06:05:02 PM »

Quote from: Lovesthedubs on January 17, 2011, 05:55:26 PM

I dont know that i would use an impact on flywheel bolts..... if you dont detorque them right you can warp the rear main.... is that accurate?

Was not planing on it. I like the strength and quality of impact sockets I am just using it to remove as the bolts are not reusable. And the replacement kit has all new bolts. Things like this require a torque wrench and I always do them in that manner. The motor mount bolts also require replacement and being torqued.

Smokestack · « **Reply #22 on:** January 17, 2011, 08:06:58 PM »

Quote from: Lovesthedubs on January 17, 2011, 05:55:26 PM

I dont know that i would use an impact on flywheel bolts..... if you dont detorque them right you can warp the rear main.... is that accurate?

No, that's not correct. An impact will never accurately torque a bolt, but should harm only a seized/crossthreaded bolt on removal. Those are already screwed up though. If you don't torque it right on re-assembly the piece can go on crooked and cause a wobble, hence tightening patterns on things like wheels.

VWI_DDUVALL · « **Reply #23 on:** January 17, 2011, 08:59:33 PM »

The kit I bought has all new hardware different type bolts and I plan on using a wrench and torque wrench to put it back together not the impact.
Thanks for all y'alls input on this now I am just waiting for the parts to arrive and can't wait to get it back on the road.
By the way went with the SBC Stage 2 Daily Clutch Kit w/SMF

VWI_DDUVALL · « **Reply #24 on:** January 24, 2011, 01:09:53 PM »

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Author Topic: Lost Clutch 04 GOLF TDI (Read 151 times)