Topic: It's a MKIII.... Vr6 12v.... Gti.... turbo? (Read 434 times)

Tek-Nic · « **on:** April 07, 2010, 05:35:17 PM »

So - I am hoping someone here has a little more experience than me... looking for advice on how to move forward.

I've got a 95 Gti Vr6 12v... I've had it for a long time, through thick and thin.
I just recently got a new job (after being unemployed since September) and I am starting to feel the itch again.

I've done a bunch to the car - but there's room to do so much more.
Lately I've been thinking about turbo charging it... *ducks*

There's no way I can justify or afford the $6000 in parts and fab I would like to spend to make this all happen.
But... I found this 'kit' on ebay that has peaked my interest.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1995-1999-VOLKSWAGEN-GOLF-VR6-12V-T04E-TURBO-KIT-24-PCS_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem2a0274797aQQitemZ180429814138QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories#ht_4965wt_939

I've never turbo charged a Vr6 before, and I've only done turbo related work on cars that come stock with a turbo.

I am mechanically inclined, and I'm not afraid of much when it comes to that car.
Last spring, I decided that I was tired of it overheating randomly... I replaced the hoses with Samco Silicon preformed, I got the billet crack pipe, german metal waterpump, new bosch electric pump, and even replaced the heater core. GASP!

After that heater core... I don't really fear anything on that car, haha.

So there ya go - I am open. Tare me down, build me up, but please give me some advice!

Oh yeah - pic for the hunnies. lol

Giggidy · « **Reply #1 on:** April 07, 2010, 06:52:49 PM »

soo.... what's your question??

brandonb85 · « **Reply #2 on:** April 07, 2010, 06:58:01 PM »

If you are thinking you canNOT turbo a mk3 for under 6k you are crazy.

go to vwvortex and check the forced inductions classifieds..

Look for a kinetics kit

brandonb85 · « **Reply #3 on:** April 07, 2010, 06:58:45 PM »

http://www.kineticmotorsport.com/catalog/MKIII_VR6-99-1.html

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4838624

SwiftMKIII · « **Reply #4 on:** April 07, 2010, 07:44:38 PM »

As much as $1K for a kit sounds better than $3K+, the kenetics kit will serve you well. The no name turbo, who knows? Maybe, maybe not.

Barry · « **Reply #5 on:** April 07, 2010, 08:53:34 PM »

LOL.....

eBay turbo kits.....

LOL.....

thanks for the laugh....

Oh.... and nice picture fail!

mikeminnillo · « **Reply #6 on:** April 07, 2010, 09:00:10 PM »

6k is outrageous for a vr Turbo setup. I'm working on piecing together a kit for my vr, and my estimate is that I'll be in about 2500 for everything. And that's going a bit above and beyond the kinetic stage 2 kit. The forced induction classifieds on the vortex is your friend.

LOS · « **Reply #7 on:** April 08, 2010, 06:30:31 AM »

Yeah 6k is pretty steep. You can find alot better out there. If you do go turbo, go with the kinetic kit like everyone else has said. You can also do a nice s/c setup for around 3k or less and make that vr scoot too and it's less of a pita to install. I'm pretty happy with my setup.

Tek-Nic · « **Reply #8 on:** April 08, 2010, 07:05:25 AM »

Thanks for the input, and yes - total picture fail. I'll have to figure that out.

I guess my reason for turbo charged over super charged is max power...
Supers are great - but I want to have that "the sky is the limit'' feeling.

And yes, I've looked at the kits on the vortex - and at kinetic. The reason for this post was mostly the $1000 kit I found. $1000 is pretty easy to scrape up - a lot easier than $3000. The $6000 number includes lots of extras beyond the turbo, fyi.

So the question is - it is a terrible idea to buy this turbo kit as a starting point? I mean sure, there's a really good chance something is going to not work right... but maybe this is still a good start point?

I know that ebay turbo kits can get a good laugh going... but shit changes, and I haven't looked at these for years. So turbo guys... looking at the link to ebay - does it look like a complete rip off, or does it look like a possible good idea?

Barry · « **Reply #9 on:** April 08, 2010, 07:41:16 AM »

The problem with that kit is this -

1. The exhaust manifold... although it probably looks identical to an ATP or Kinetics VR turbo manifold, the quality of work, and grade of materials used is not the same. The eBay manifold will crack from heat in no time.

2. The turbo.... no hard way to say it... it's eBay junk.

3. The intercooler... . same thing.... the endcaps will fail, causing boost leaks.

So in the end, you will be stuck paying $1000 for all of the other junk.

Don't waste your time and money.

If you are looking for a simple, reliable, low boost application, you should be able to piece together a kit off of vortex with a NEW turbo for uinder $2000.

If you want 600 WHP, big ball bearing turbo, then get your checkbook ready.

Barry · « **Reply #10 on:** April 08, 2010, 07:42:11 AM »

Oh.... and the same can be said as the manifold for the downpipe.

cheap materials = shit breaking

Barry · « **Reply #11 on:** April 08, 2010, 07:45:20 AM »

Oh.... and another BTW....

I have a 12V VR turbo sitting in my driveway

Southcross · « **Reply #12 on:** April 08, 2010, 07:45:43 AM »

My opinion on ebay turbo kits... seen a lot of them on the VWVortex, the manifolds can crack with extreme useage, and the sleeve bearings in the turbos are sometimes junk. Seems hit and miss on who gets a good kit, and who gets a pile of crap.

Consider these ebay kits "starter kits" like the crappy $20 tool kits you can buy at Walmart that "look" like the $200 Sears Tools, shit is gonna break and your gonna have to replace it. from the $1000 stand point, if you don't mind the idea that maybe a two years, maybe 3 months, down the road you might have to replace the turbo, the manifold, etc... go for it. These kits are essentially like doing Junkyard turbo setups, just more expensive and just as likely to fail, Just DO NOT skimp on engine management/fueling/cooling.

Personally... if you want to thrash on a Turbo (over boosting, etc).... ebay turbos are a FUCKLOAD less expensive to replace than a name brand one, sure you might spend $300/year replacing them, its "cheaper" than shelling out for one $1200 turbo

Barry · « **Reply #13 on:** April 08, 2010, 07:47:40 AM »

Don't install a shitty turbo in the frist place.

I don't know why people ever build a car, and have parts they "plan" on replacing....

Unless you are a professional racer (any kind) then build it right the first time, and dont plan on replacing anything due to wear and tear....

Southcross · « **Reply #14 on:** April 08, 2010, 07:57:57 AM »

Quote from: GotMyDub on April 08, 2010, 07:47:40 AM

Don't install a shitty turbo in the frist place.

I don't know why people ever build a car, and have parts they "plan" on replacing....

Unless you are a professional racer (any kind) then build it right the first time, and dont plan on replacing anything due to wear and tear....

your right... ideally boosting a daily driven car, you don't want to have to re-do everything... upgrading maybe, but not "replacing"

People who build primarily to race look at engines, transmissions, axles, turbos, etc etc as "user replaceable parts"... thats why most of the hard core FWD VW racers have stacks of transmissions and spend $1000 each for so called "unbreakable" axles. Sure they "hope" that their shit won't break, everyone does, but its gonna happen when you push shit past its original mechanical limits.

Barry · « **Reply #15 on:** April 08, 2010, 08:02:57 AM »

I hear ya Ed... I dont think Tek-Nik is building a 600 WHP racecar however.

Tek-Nic · « **Reply #16 on:** April 08, 2010, 08:05:21 AM »

I wouldn't say I am a professional racer, but I do autocross it, and it has never been to a mechanic shop.
I do it ALL myself, at least with this car.

When the car runs good, I love to drive it daily... but it isn't really the daily driver. That being said, I don't plan on replacing parts... but I know it is going to happen sooner or later. Give me a knob that goes to 11, and I will try to turn it to 12.

But okay - i at least appreciate everyone's passing opinion. We'll see what happens this summer once the cash is rolling in a bit more steadily.

-Nic

Southcross · « **Reply #17 on:** April 08, 2010, 08:07:39 AM »

Quote from: GotMyDub on April 08, 2010, 08:02:57 AM

I hear ya Ed... I dont think Tek-Nik is building a 600 WHP racecar however.

I'm just saying what to expect when buying an ebay kit, and why someone would intentionally buy one (assuming they even know what their buying LOL)

Barry · « **Reply #18 on:** April 08, 2010, 08:09:30 AM »

Sounds like you just need a nice, reliable, 12lb turbo setup.....

Buy an ATP manifold, C2 head spacer, inectors, and software, and consider that your start. Once you decide what specs you want on the turbo, you can find one in the classifieds. Word of advice... a turbo is like anything else.... you get what you pay for. $1000 turbos are going to be alot better than $200 turbos....

Keep that in mind.....

Then, all you need is a generic IC tubing setup, good silicone couplers, and a good intercooler. Dont go cheap on the IC, or couplers.... welded tubing is welded tubing....

Tek-Nic · « **Reply #19 on:** April 08, 2010, 08:12:38 AM »

Quote from: GotMyDub on April 08, 2010, 07:45:20 AM

Oh.... and another BTW....

I have a 12V VR turbo sitting in my driveway

Thanks for your advice... describing typical failures on an ebay kit is exactly what I needed to hear. erm... read.

And another BTW... turning the dial to 12 for me means over 600bhp, lol.

I guess this means I need to hurry up and wait. I'll just forget about the ebay option completely, and start saving for better shit.

When can I go for a ride in this 12v turbo of yours? I'd love to see it. If my rotors show up tomorrow, I will make sure to come to the gtg... will you be there?

brandonb85 · « **Reply #20 on:** April 08, 2010, 08:17:10 AM »

He wont be there. Hes in MD

Buy a kinetics kit or have Gabe from Bluewater performance set you up

/thread

Tek-Nic · « **Reply #21 on:** April 08, 2010, 08:19:24 AM »

lol. I guess this thread is over.

Thanks for not making it awkward.

It's always hard to figure out who should hang up first.
... no you hang up first. no you! okay... we'll do it on three....

brandonb85 · « **Reply #22 on:** April 08, 2010, 08:22:36 AM »

You can still let the thread go on.... I just want you to make the right decision.. And i think kinetics stage II with a .60 trim and some C2 tuning from Gabe would be a monster.

The reason i say this is i am a S/C VR and it was the biggest waste of money. If i could do it again i would have went straight to kinetic.

Tek-Nic · « **Reply #23 on:** April 08, 2010, 08:30:51 AM »

You're not the first I've heard say that in regards to the SC.
My biggest reason for the turbo is that I can keep going if I happen to make enough money.

I've seen some crazy set-ups in my time, and it makes my head spin.

If I could get a good starting point for a turbo installed, I can just keep buying extra bits as I go along.
And maybe eventually end up like a VR powered version of the dahlenback, lol,

Barry · « **Reply #24 on:** April 08, 2010, 10:00:16 AM »

Don't need anything real crazy.... I am looking into rebuilding the turbo setup I have on my hands now...

I was thinking something with a little more potential, but nothing crazy....

head spacer, bigger injectors, C2 software, battery relocation, short runner intake manifold, air to water IC, and ball bearing turbo....

Should be good for 400 WHP with water methanol injection....

Should only cost $2500 - 3K to build and assemble.

I am going to buy a piece at a time, and start stocking up my parts shelf... I actually have 3 cars I will be buying parts for

Alittle at a time.....

Tek-Nic · « **Reply #25 on:** April 08, 2010, 10:28:38 AM »

A little at a time is the only way these days.
I really hope that some day I can just call up and order everything my heart desires.

Maybe even an extra block for the back seat. It's lonely back there.

Barry · « **Reply #26 on:** April 08, 2010, 10:48:30 AM »

oh... and brandon was mad about his S/C because he had a little V9 on his car....

Bolt up a V1, with a 15LB pulley, and I garuntee you won't be disappointed.. ..

sad_rocc · « **Reply #27 on:** April 08, 2010, 10:55:21 AM »

I have nothing to add other than 666 smites, nicely done!

brandonb85 · « **Reply #28 on:** April 08, 2010, 10:59:54 AM »

I wasnt mad with my V9.. It still pulls hard as hell. 10.2 psi. And that is the only charger that will fit without modifying the mk4 bay.

Centrifugal chargers are weak compared to turbo's regardless. Doesnt matter if you have a v1,v2,v9 ect..

Roots is another story

mikeminnillo · « **Reply #29 on:** April 08, 2010, 12:44:19 PM »

With your talks of making big power (new dude, not Barry), have you considered the potential of beefing up the bottom end to handle the extra boost? My understanding is that if you're wanting to push about 12+ paid, that stuff needs to be reinforced.

Tek-Nic · « **Reply #30 on:** April 08, 2010, 12:46:55 PM »

Baby steps, but yes... The bottom end will be one of them.

mikeminnillo · « **Reply #31 on:** April 08, 2010, 12:48:25 PM »

B, I'm glad you mentioned roots type blowers. Have you looked into doing it on a 12v? Fucking nuts. Apparently there was some company that built just a few prototype kits about 10 years ago, but that's it. It would be an awesome idea, though.

Barry · « **Reply #32 on:** April 08, 2010, 02:16:50 PM »

When it comes to superchargers. ...

Centrifugal > Roots any day of the week....

And yes.... I worked hard for my 666 smites... Might as well give me one more for saying mkIV's suck.

12 lbs of boost is the very maximum you should push on a VR with stock compression Mike. With a headspacer and water methanol injection, you should be able to push 15 - 20 on a daily basis with no problem. 20+ is when you need to keep a benchstock of fresh bottom ends, or just build a bottom end for lower compression.

LOS · « **Reply #33 on:** April 08, 2010, 08:27:20 PM »

Teknic, evaluate what you want out of it. If you aren't going big hp, piece together a kit, get a good turbo and be happy with it. Make sure the software is good and the fueling is enough though.

And just for shits and giggles... Not all S/C owners are unhappy with their set up, matter of fact I'm pretty happy with mine. But then again I'm in a different mindset... I didn't want to worry about tuning, boost spikes and pretty much immediate need for clutch, lsd, etc. I wanted smooth power delivery, and the extra headaches that can come from turbo kits. I'm still on my og clutch and the car runs pretty damn good as well as its been totally reliable. Now a days the turbo kits are alot more reliable but not too long ago that wasn't the case. Now I have had the standard water pump pulley failure and a couple little hiccups, but with anything you modify there are some risks.

Brandon, I think you are not as happy because of the s/c unit you have... that v9 blower just maxes out quick and doesn't put out as much power as the v1 or v2. You upgraded the pulley and dropped alot of money into that set up so I can understand your apprehension.

Just my 2 cents. LOL

brandonb85 · « **Reply #34 on:** April 08, 2010, 09:37:17 PM »

Agreed with Los..

When i did supercharge my car is was my daily. I wanted clean reliable power. So i went the s/c route. But now having it as a car i drive one every three months i wish i had more power for the money i spent.

Tek-Nic · « **Reply #35 on:** April 08, 2010, 09:46:14 PM »

Quote from: LOS on April 08, 2010, 08:27:20 PM

I wanted smooth power delivery, and the extra headaches that can come from turbo kits.

I want bonkers delivery, with the headaches too. We'll see if I can truly figure out a way to fund such a project.

oliver · « **Reply #36 on:** April 11, 2010, 07:37:47 AM »

12psi on an intercooled kinetic's like setup is fun for a daily driver, but if you are planning on going over 300hp down the road just get the better & bigger turbo and a couple more loads of cash because you will be replacing stuff quite often. My buddy kevin of tomas sports tuning built a 575hp mk2 vr turbo and he replaces axles every week.... over 300hp on a fwd car is only fun on a straight line.

Here's my old ride

Kinetics kit trim
9:5:1 compression
Arp headbolts
Intercooler
walhbro fuel pump

LOS · « **Reply #37 on:** April 11, 2010, 12:54:47 PM »

Quote from: Tek-Nic on April 08, 2010, 09:46:14 PM

Quote from: LOS on April 08, 2010, 08:27:20 PM
I wanted smooth power delivery, and the extra headaches that can come from turbo kits.

I want bonkers delivery, with the headaches too. We'll see if I can truly figure out a way to fund such a project.

That was a typo... I was trying to avoid headaches.
If you want bonkers delivery, then be prepared to get an lsd, high dollar clutch, a spare block in garage on the stand, spare tranny, and as Oliver said... plenty of axles. Over 300hp to the wheels is not fwd friendly.

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Author Topic: It's a MKIII.... Vr6 12v.... Gti.... turbo? (Read 434 times)