Print

[0dd_j0b]

With fixing the Scirocco. I can get it to turn over, and close to starting..but it just won't go. I've timed it a hundred times over. I've moved the plugs on the distributor in every position possible, I've been through every degree of ignition timing on the distributor possible, I just can't this going. If you can come over and get this running, I will have a $$$ reward waiting for you on the 26th when I get paid. I'm THAT desperate.

[Smokestack]

Did you touch cam timing? I've seen people time the cam off of the wrong mark before and do exactly what is happening to you. For reference, use the dot cast into the back side of the cam sprocket and line it up with the forward edge of the head where the valve cover meets it. Also, are you sure you're not 180* off on your timing? Set the timing mark on the flywheel to top dead center and see if the rotor points to the cylinder No. 1 terminal (this is also the perfect time to check cam timing). If it doesn't point to it, spin the distributor and swap wires so that it does point to #1. Check the firing order too. Clockwise; 1-3-4-2.

[scurvy_bandit]

also make sure you are using the correct mark on the flywheel... I know these guys that used the wrong mark once. 

[0dd_j0b]

I guess frustration got the best of me. blah. Thanks for the advice, I'll try it when I get home from work tonight.

[scurvy_bandit]

pictures help.
the red circle is the cam pulley, the blue one is the flywheel.

[attachment deleted by admin]

[greggearhead]

Just move farther south.  More of us to help down here. 

[0dd_j0b]

so if the flywheel mark is off when #1 is at TDC, how do I adjust that?

[Southcross]

so if the flywheel mark is off when #1 is at TDC, how do I adjust that?

there are usually two marks.. a "o" for TDC (might be kind of hard to see... its cast into the flywheel) and a "V" (that is hand stamped in the flywheel) for approx 6-8 degrees BTDC.... if you see the "V" stamping, it is approx 12mm (1/2 inch) before the TDC mark.  some later 1.8L models have a 12-0 scale imprinted on the machined face of the flywheel...

You can always re-stamp the notch with a cold chisel at the right distance... BUT be sure that the stamping is indeed wrong before you do... also, I recommend purchasing a paint-pen from a hobby store and marking the true TDC and timing mark with paint.

[scurvy_bandit]

i didnt know the mark could be off?? Maybe so! Did you bolt the flywheel on with #1 at TDC with the line at the top of the flywheel?

[Southcross]

i didnt know the mark could be off?? Maybe so! Did you bolt the flywheel on with #1 at TDC with the line at the top of the flywheel?

if he has an original JH flywheel its got factory markings (the 12-0 scale)... if he has a flywheel from another earlier engine or an aftermarket flywheel, they have hand stamped timing marks

[Southcross]

I will be down on the 21st (Sunday)... I might be persuaded to come by (looks like I'll probably be making 3-4 stops anyways LOL)

[0dd_j0b]

i didnt know the mark could be off?? Maybe so! Did you bolt the flywheel on with #1 at TDC with the line at the top of the flywheel?

when I did the clutch, I made sure the #1 cyl. was at TDC. I guess I was off. I dunno.

[Southcross]

i didnt know the mark could be off?? Maybe so! Did you bolt the flywheel on with #1 at TDC with the line at the top of the flywheel?

when I did the clutch, I made sure the #1 cyl. was at TDC. I guess I was off. I dunno.

hmm.... edit... I forget the Mk1 can have the flhywheel mounted 60-120 degrees off  (errr. or is it 120-240 deges off??)

[0dd_j0b]

i didnt know the mark could be off?? Maybe so! Did you bolt the flywheel on with #1 at TDC with the line at the top of the flywheel?

when I did the clutch, I made sure the #1 cyl. was at TDC. I guess I was off. I dunno.

hmm.... edit... I forget the Mk1 can have the flhywheel mounted 60-120 degrees off  (errr. or is it 120-240 deges off??)

so should I have the flywheel lines up with the cam? or #1 TDC lined with the cam? and same with the ign. distributor?

[Southcross]

i didnt know the mark could be off?? Maybe so! Did you bolt the flywheel on with #1 at TDC with the line at the top of the flywheel?

when I did the clutch, I made sure the #1 cyl. was at TDC. I guess I was off. I dunno.

hmm.... edit... I forget the Mk1 can have the flhywheel mounted 60-120 degrees off  (errr. or is it 120-240 deges off??)

so should I have the flywheel lines up with the cam? or #1 TDC lined with the cam? and same with the ign. distributor?

well... going back to teh time of installing the clutch... engine at TDC, mount pressure plate (only mounts one way with all 6 bolts aligned), and mount the flywheel with the TDC mark "up"... problem is the bolt pattern on the flywheel allows you to put it on 120 or 240 degrees off if your not paying attention

[0dd_j0b]

i didnt know the mark could be off?? Maybe so! Did you bolt the flywheel on with #1 at TDC with the line at the top of the flywheel?

when I did the clutch, I made sure the #1 cyl. was at TDC. I guess I was off. I dunno.

hmm.... edit... I forget the Mk1 can have the flhywheel mounted 60-120 degrees off  (errr. or is it 120-240 deges off??)

so should I have the flywheel lines up with the cam? or #1 TDC lined with the cam? and same with the ign. distributor?

well... going back to teh time of installing the clutch... engine at TDC, mount pressure plate (only mounts one way with all 6 bolts aligned), and mount the flywheel with the TDC mark "up"... problem is the bolt pattern on the flywheel allows you to put it on 120 or 240 degrees off if your not paying attention

I set the O timing mark as far to the top as I could. While #1 was @ TDC.

[Southcross]

i didnt know the mark could be off?? Maybe so! Did you bolt the flywheel on with #1 at TDC with the line at the top of the flywheel?

when I did the clutch, I made sure the #1 cyl. was at TDC. I guess I was off. I dunno.

hmm.... edit... I forget the Mk1 can have the flhywheel mounted 60-120 degrees off  (errr. or is it 120-240 deges off??)

so should I have the flywheel lines up with the cam? or #1 TDC lined with the cam? and same with the ign. distributor?

well... going back to teh time of installing the clutch... engine at TDC, mount pressure plate (only mounts one way with all 6 bolts aligned), and mount the flywheel with the TDC mark "up"... problem is the bolt pattern on the flywheel allows you to put it on 120 or 240 degrees off if your not paying attention

I set the O timing mark as far to the top as I could. While #1 was @ TDC.

assuming that the "o" mark was basically verticle to the block... you installed it correctly

[0dd_j0b]

i didnt know the mark could be off?? Maybe so! Did you bolt the flywheel on with #1 at TDC with the line at the top of the flywheel?

when I did the clutch, I made sure the #1 cyl. was at TDC. I guess I was off. I dunno.

hmm.... edit... I forget the Mk1 can have the flhywheel mounted 60-120 degrees off  (errr. or is it 120-240 deges off??)

so should I have the flywheel lines up with the cam? or #1 TDC lined with the cam? and same with the ign. distributor?

well... going back to teh time of installing the clutch... engine at TDC, mount pressure plate (only mounts one way with all 6 bolts aligned), and mount the flywheel with the TDC mark "up"... problem is the bolt pattern on the flywheel allows you to put it on 120 or 240 degrees off if your not paying attention

alright, so I need to align the cam with the flywheel? or #1 TDC?
I set the O timing mark as far to the top as I could. While #1 was @ TDC.

assuming that the "o" mark was basically verticle to the block... you installed it correctly

[Southcross]

I set the O timing mark as far to the top as I could. While #1 was @ TDC.

then.... hmm.... not sure where to go

going back... how are you sure your at #1 TDC?

[Barry]

Thank God you stopped that quote daisy chain cluster fuck!



MkI's arent like mkII and mkIIII's? I know on both of my VW's, the crank has an irregular bolt pattern and so does the flywheel, so there is only one way to bolt the flywheel back on...

[Southcross]

Thank God you stopped that quote daisy chain cluster fuck!



MkI's arent like mkII and mkIIII's? I know on both of my VW's, the crank has an irregular bolt pattern and so does the flywheel, so there is only one way to bolt the flywheel back on...

bolt pattern on the Mk1 is exactly the same... BUT, on the Mk1 the presure plate bolts to the crank and the flywheel bolts to the PP.... completely backwards to every other VW model in existance.  it takes some hard work to bolt the PP on the crankshaft wrong, but there was a design flaw with the flywheel that allowed you to bolt it 120 or 240 degrees off from TDC

[Smokestack]

bolt pattern on the Mk1 is exactly the same... BUT, on the Mk1 the presure plate bolts to the crank and the flywheel bolts to the PP.... completely backwards to every other VW model in existance.  it takes some hard work to bolt the PP on the crankshaft wrong, but there was a design flaw with the flywheel that allowed you to bolt it 120 or 240 degrees off from TDC

MKIIs and 4 cylinder MKIIIs used the same type of clutch as the MKI. Only notable difference is on 16v MKIIs and MKIIIs they used a larger diameter input shaft for the transmission and a heavier duty PP.

Unless they were knocked out, there should be alignment pins (just cheapy roll pins) in the flywheel that make the flywheel install in only one way. Find TDC the oldschool way if you have any doubts. Pull the plug on the No. 1 cylinder and stick a screw driver or something in it. Turn the engine over by hand and use the screw driver to follow the piston to the top. Don't just let it sit in there while you turn the engine over, lift up on the screw driver because otherwise it will bind and screw up your head if you keep turning it. Check where your marks are. The rotor should be pointing at No.1, the flywheel marks should line up with the pointer, and the dot on the cam gear should line up with the edge of the head. If neither of the cam or ignition marks are not you might just be 180* off (middle of the exhaust stroke) and you need to turn it over some more (one more rotation). If the timing marks still are not lining up, spin the distributor and/or swap plugs until the rotor lines up with No.1 if that's off, or if the cam timing is off loosen the timing belt and spin the cam sprocket and cam shaft until it does line up and reinstall the belt. If things still don't work after you've done this your problem is in either the ignition wiring, ICM, or fuel system.

[Southcross]

IIRC, the PITA part is on early 1.8 flywheels... they only had one roll pin, allowing the 120/240 mis-alignment, later flywheels had 2, making it almost imposible to mount it wrong

[scurvy_bandit]

its simple, take out the plug
rotate engine clockwise until you feel air pressure building up
remove thumb
take a bamboo shish kabob and put it in the #1 cylinder plug hole.
continue to rotate until the bamboo starts to move down a hair, back it up so it is at TDC

check dot on cam, check alignment of rotor on distributor. 


THIS should get you there man. Good luck

[0dd_j0b]

its simple, take out the plug
rotate engine clockwise until you feel air pressure building up
remove thumb
take a bamboo shish kabob and put it in the #1 cylinder plug hole.
continue to rotate until the bamboo starts to move down a hair, back it up so it is at TDC
check dot on cam, check alignment of rotor on distributor. 
THIS should get you there man. Good luck

oh no, I have no problem finding TDC, just trying to figure out what needs to align to what. Thanks the help guys. I'll give it another try. Hopfully not burning out my starter trying.