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[VWO4L]

true, true, but like all saturns, or GM for that matter.... the tame version comes, and then the redline/ss/etc..... if saturns future was secure, there would no doubt be a redline astra with close or the same power as the cobalt ss/tc (what like 260 hp?)

Perhaps, but I wouldn't bet on it.  As it is now, Saturn only barely seemed to offer the Astra.  In fact, for '09, they aren't even building any for the US and plan to sell through the existing '08's instead(http://www.autoblog.com/2009/01/28/saturn-astra-disappears-for-2009/)  They have one engine option and it's one that we don't even get in another US model.  It's not a particulalrly fuel-efficient one either, not with the Cobalt achieving mid 30's MPG with similar HP yet the Astra barely ekes out 32mpg and with the stick shift only. 

Also, in order to get the 3dr version, you have to buy the uplevel XR because that's the only one they sell you here and it's like $2K more than the 5dr.  To make matters worse, that same 5dr is only available as the lower-lever XE model.  Just makes hardly any sense to me.  The cost really hurt it compared to the competition as well.  I think they should have taken a cue from VW and sold the 3dr for less even if it meant taking a loss on it, just makes sense, not to mention selling both trim levels on both versions.  Americans aren't used to paying more for a smaller car than a bigger one and at a $16,500 base for the 5dr(base model, mind you), they have a lot of other intriguing options.

Being a Euro model, GM had a golden opportunity to bring over some(or at least one) of their diesel engines that would slot right in and really have a car that gets great mileage.  Then, they could have offered the diesel, perhaps an engine shared with the Cobalt for a better mileage gas engine, and a Red Line model and had pretty much anyone covered.  They also should have offered any of those options with either the 3dr or the 5dr body style.  Some advertising would have helped too.  They did primarily online advertising for the Astra and no print or TV ads I believe.

As far as the future, who knows.  With Saturn likely going away, I'm not sure I see a home for the Astra in the US.  I think it could be a Pontiac, but with Pontiac skrinking too, that's iffy.  I couldn't see it as a Buick and if it were a Chevy, it would be competiting with the Cobalt(or Cruze in a few years) and it would get outsold 3 or 4 to 1 with Americans preference for sedans over hatches.  I guess it could happen though, but I'm not betting on it.  Then there's also this news that came out today, http://www.autoblog.com/2009/02/27/opel-to-spin-off-gm-will-retain-stake/  Who knows how that would affect things.

Work is well under way on the next Astra though and it looks nice with an interior influenced by the awesome Insignia Sedan built overseas(will eventually become our next Malibu and Aura if Saturn is around by 2012)


We'll first see the Insignia(or it's platform rather) as the 2010 Buick LaCrosse, http://www.autoblog.com/2009/01/08/detroit-preview-2010-buick-lacrosse-breaks-cover/

Here are a few shots of it.  Believe it or not, it's a Buick I would actually not mind buying.




Also, here's the Opel Insignia built on the same platform which again will trickle down to the Malibu, Aura, and G6 if all 3 are still around in 3yrs or so.





That last interior pic is interesting as well.  The instrument panel lights change from white to red when the sport mode is engaged.  I thought that was a neat tweak that you don't see everyday.

In case you can't tell, I'm somewhat of a GM fan    I've been raised on them all my life.

[sad_rocc]

That saab suv is pretty hot. Looks like a wagon rolling on 20"s from the pic tho. I've always thought saabs have been pretty luxurious looking (disregarding '80s ones).

[Scott]

Out of the big three, the one I have the most faith in is Ford.  I have owned 3 Ford products and they never let me down when it counted.  I have owned a few GM and Dodge products too, and I would certainly pick GM over Dodge any day of the week without hesitation, but they are both so far behind Ford it is not even funny.

[MileHighAssassin]

Out of the big three, the one I have the most faith in is Ford.  I have owned 3 Ford products and they never let me down when it counted.  I have owned a few GM and Dodge products too, and I would certainly pick GM over Dodge any day of the week without hesitation, but they are both so far behind Ford it is not even funny.

I disagree 100%.

I honestly think GM offers the most sound product.

Ford has had some major problems with their last two diesel motors, it's not even funny.

They all have their issues, Dodge is clearly the worst.

[Scott]

I must be honest... I have not had much dealings with either Ford or GM products in the last 3 or 4 years.  The ones I have driven from both of them (typically Gov't vehicles) have been quite nice, but I cannot speak to the everyday ownership type stuff in them.  I certainly think GM is on the right track, and I hope they get things sorted out but as it stands right now I would not buy anything from GM until they can show some long term viability.

[VWO4L]

I must be honest... I have not had much dealings with either Ford or GM products in the last 3 or 4 years.  The ones I have driven from both of them (typically Gov't vehicles) have been quite nice, but I cannot speak to the everyday ownership type stuff in them.  I certainly think GM is on the right track, and I hope they get things sorted out but as it stands right now I would not buy anything from GM until they can show some long term viability.

My family has owned nothing but GM vehicles for as long as I've been alive and we've never had any issues with any of those vehicles out of the ordinary.  I truly can't think of any major issues we've had with any of their cars outside of regular maintainance.  I'd have absolutely no issue owning a GM vehicle if I was looking for a car right now.  There honestly aren't many that I like, but I would have no problem owning one from a reliability standpoint.

That said, I think Ford has really stepped up in the past few years and is offering some great vehicles right now as well.  I've never been a Ford guy, but I could honestly see myself owning one if I were given the chance.  Not something I would have said a few years back.  Like GM though, there are only a few I'd consider.

[Scott]

I did get a chance to drive that new Malibu hybrid recently, and even though the outside of it is TERRIBLY ugly, the interior is pretty frickin' cool.

[Smokestack]

Out of the big three, the one I have the most faith in is Ford.  I have owned 3 Ford products and they never let me down when it counted.  I have owned a few GM and Dodge products too, and I would certainly pick GM over Dodge any day of the week without hesitation, but they are both so far behind Ford it is not even funny.

I disagree 100%.

I honestly think GM offers the most sound product.

Ford has had some major problems with their last two diesel motors, it's not even funny.

They all have their issues, Dodge is clearly the worst.

Like the Isuzu is any better? How about the Detroit diesel? Or maybe the one based off of the Oldsmobile gas engine? The Navistar engines used in the Fords are actually really good engines. The problem lies in Ford "adapting" them for the superdutys. Even then I've never actually seen any problems with them, and I used to manage a small fleet of the 6 liters.

Dodge uses a pretty stout, but extremely antiquated motor. It's tried and true, but it's time to get with the times and create an engine that has a powerband greater than 500rpms and doesn't have the old diesel rattle 'n clank. As much as I hate the Cummins, they're still a better diesel motor than anything GM has right now.

Ford and Lincoln have the only real viable options in cars I'd own and buy right now if I was in the market (outside of VW), with some of the Chevy SS, Saturn and Cadilac models coming in second. I'd rather drive an old Daewoo than anything Chrysler.

[MileHighAssassin]

Yes the Duramax (Isuzu) is tons better.  The Ford 7.3 was the shit (in a good way) but everything since has been a piece of shit.

Best thing Dodge ever did was Cummins, worst thing Cummins ever did was Dodge.  loL

My father has several trucks in his fleet of plows and his Duramax (2002) has been rock solid.  He just got a brand new Ford F-350 (gas) and it is a complete DOG.  I told him that it should be a good truck, but when plowing or going over the pass, they are extremely weak in power.  I was seriously surprised at the lack of power.

My step-father has a 2003 that has been trouble free with TONS of towing.  Only real issue is a wheel bearing going bad at 89k miles.  He averages 22 MPG.  Many times he gets 24 MPG.  I know that might be hard to believe but it is a stock truck, with a shell on it (honestly helps with drag), full synthetics in the motor, tranny, etc.  How you drive helps a ton.

Back to the subject.  GM has been producing some great cars.  I am not a fan of the Cobalt but that car set the record at the Ring for the fastest time in a front wheel drive vehicle.  Faster than the last generation M3.  The Malibu is a great looking vehicle, interior is really nice.  Impala in the last few years has been a reliable vehicle.  Uncle has one with 130k miles, all trouble free.  Another car I would not buy but has been a winner for GM is the HHR.  Cheap, reliable and very roomy.  Really nice vehicle really. 

Ford... I honestly don't know a lot about them, but the new Taurus is supposed to be a winner.  I have a 2001 Taurus as a 2nd vehicle and it has been pretty much problem free.  My parents bought it used at about 13k miles.  They gave it to me about 6 months ago.  It now has 146k miles on it and runs strong.  We average about 24 MPG mixed driving and 30 MPG strictly highway.  Only problems other than maintenance items have been the need for a new gas cap, and a cracked coolant bottle (replaced bottle and cap).

[Smokestack]

Yes the Duramax (Isuzu) is tons better. 

Still has head issues which is what plagued the Detroit. They're just as guttless too. I've lost track of how many times I've passed a duramax pulling a horse trailer up a pass while I'm using a Ford with a 6.0 that was overloaded with the equipment I use to use to clear ranges. I easily exceded their weight by 5,000lbs or more and they were belching so much black smoke mesquitos for miles were dropping dead.

The Ford 7.3 was the shit (in a good way) but everything since has been a piece of shit.

7.3 was a hell of a motor, but its replacements are pretty good. Don't knock it because the Dodge boys do. They're jealous.

Best thing Dodge ever did was Cummins, worst thing Cummins ever did was Dodge.  loL

I think Cummins likes the deal too, otherwise they would have pulled out years ago.

My father has several trucks in his fleet of plows and his Duramax (2002) has been rock solid.  He just got a brand new Ford F-350 (gas) and it is a complete DOG.  I told him that it should be a good truck, but when plowing or going over the pass, they are extremely weak in power.  I was seriously surprised at the lack of power.

The modular engines that Ford uses are more of an HP engine and less of a torque. Ford hasn't made a real gasoline truck engine since the 460ci v8. All of the big 3 have been doing this with their truck engines so that they can up sale their diesel engines. If that truck has a 5.4 liter I can understand it being guttless. the 5.4 replaced the 351 Windsor and that was always more of a car engine.

My step-father has a 2003 that has been trouble free with TONS of towing.  Only real issue is a wheel bearing going bad at 89k miles.  He averages 22 MPG.  Many times he gets 24 MPG.  I know that might be hard to believe but it is a stock truck, with a shell on it (honestly helps with drag), full synthetics in the motor, tranny, etc.  How you drive helps a ton.

Good for him, but it doesn't really sound like he uses it as a truck. With a topper and 20+mpg it sounds more like he should be in a car and leave the truck in the driveway until he needs to haul something. No sense in owning a truck and driving it like a Geo Metro. You'd save more money/resources by driving the Geo.

Back to the subject.  GM has been producing some great cars.  I am not a fan of the Cobalt but that car set the record at the Ring for the fastest time in a front wheel drive vehicle.  Faster than the last generation M3.  The Malibu is a great looking vehicle, interior is really nice.  Impala in the last few years has been a reliable vehicle.  Uncle has one with 130k miles, all trouble free.  Another car I would not buy but has been a winner for GM is the HHR.  Cheap, reliable and very roomy.  Really nice vehicle really. 

There are some GM vehicles I wouldn't mind owning, but there are other companies that have my attention first. I still don't like the general feel and look of their interiors. In some cases it seems like they designed a really nice interior piece and then went with the absolute cheapest materials in production ruining the appeal of it. Looks are subjective, but some look pretty good while others show that GM is still thinking along the same lines as what produced the Aztec...

Ford... I honestly don't know a lot about them, but the new Taurus is supposed to be a winner.  I have a 2001 Taurus as a 2nd vehicle and it has been pretty much problem free.  My parents bought it used at about 13k miles.  They gave it to me about 6 months ago.  It now has 146k miles on it and runs strong.  We average about 24 MPG mixed driving and 30 MPG strictly highway.  Only problems other than maintenance items have been the need for a new gas cap, and a cracked coolant bottle (replaced bottle and cap).

Ford has been making one hell of a turnaround. With the products they've been putting out it's getting kinda hard to think of them as the average "American Auto Corporation." They just seem to be thinking things through better than the others right now.

[MileHighAssassin]

Just because you pass a Duramax doesn't make it gutless.  There is more to towing a trailer than seeing how fast you can scream up a pass.  Fuel prices  have made a lot more people aware of their driving habits.  Controlling that load comes into play as well.


My stepfather uses the hell out of his truck, like I said most of it is towing.  He doesn't beat on the truck like a construction worker would but it sees plenty of dirt roads, some light off roading etc.  They have a 328xi  for when the truck isn't needed.   


Funny you mention the Aztec... many people find that thing ugly while in the same breath will talk about how much they like the X6, lol.


I will admit that until recently and still to this day, many of the GM vehicles do have the cheap interior look.  I do believe that is changing more.

Look at the interior of the new Malibu, pretty impressive. Perfect no, but I see the improvements, I think they make a reliable vehicle these days.

[VWO4L]

Look at the interior of the new Malibu, pretty impressive. Perfect no, but I see the improvements, I think they make a reliable vehicle these days.

My parents bought an '09 Malibu(LTZ) back in October so I have fairly good knowledge of it.  The interior does look very nice and is a huge step up from the previous Malibu and any other car interior Chevy has made in the last 20yrs.

However, I don't care for the hard plastic feel of some of the interior bits.  The materials in my '02 GTI feel better to be honest.  How the Malibu compares to its main competitors, the Accord and Camry, I can't say.  I don't spend much time in any of those and have yet to set foot in a new version of either.  But, if comparison tests mean anything, the Malibu is par for the course.

On a side note, I'm quite annoyed by the seating position of the Malibu though.  I also think it's a trait that a number of new cars have these days.  The seating position is made to make you feel like you are sitting higher in the vehicle, I presume in order to give the feeling of a "commanding' view of the road.  Unfortunately, it makes me feel slightly clausterphobic and even with the seat as low as it goes, I feel much too high.  The car does have a sunroof which cramps the headroom slightly but my VW does as well and even with the seat as high as it goes, I have plenty of room in my GTI.   I'm not tall either.  It seems to me that anyone over 6ft tall would have a hard time fitting comfortably into a new Malibu.  I guess I just prefer the feeling of sitting "in" the car as opposed to "on top" of the car.

Overall though, the car is pretty nice with enough gadgets to confuse my parents    Even with the V6, the car will get 28mpg hwy very easily and It's no slouch either.

[Giggidy]

There is more to towing a trailer than seeing how fast you can scream up a pass.  Fuel prices  have made a lot more people aware of their driving habits.  Controlling that load comes into play as well.

Yeah that's exactly what he said he was doing too.... "screaming up the pass"   I know I sure love it when I have to wait behind a the slow truck creeping up the hill. They give those trucks disgusting amounts of tq for a reason... hauling heavy loads for long distances up hills. Use your right foot and quit impeding traffic.