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Author Topic: A sad day for Saturn  (Read 772 times)

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sad_rocc

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A sad day for Saturn
« on: February 18, 2009, 10:21:50 AM »

Off to car heaven: Saturn, Saab, Hummer
Posted Feb 17 2009, 09:35 PM by Des Toups Rating:  Filed under: economy, cars
Say goodbye to Saturn. And Saab and Hummer, for that matter. Pontiac, too, for all intents and purposes.

Unless buyers (a few million of us -- or maybe just a couple of really adventurous billionaires) step forward, three of General Motors’ eight brands are now destined to join Oldsmobile in the history books. A fourth will be relegated to “niche” status, says GM.  The company, until last year the world’s largest automaker, announced plans Tuesday that would drastically scale back its operations in order to stay alive.

Production of Saturn cars would stop in 2011 if the brand hasn’t been sold, GM said. Execs will decide whether to pull the plug on Hummer at the end of March, though rumors of Chinese interest have emerged (and been discounted) several times. The company says Saab will be an “independent business entity as of Jan. 1, 2010.” Take that to mean “dead” unless a reluctant Swedish government can be convinced to step in. Pontiac will emerge as a “highly focused niche brand” sold through Buick and GMC Truck showrooms.

All necessary steps, for sure. And insignificant, compared with the long-term future of the workers who make them and the towns that depend upon them.

Yet we’ll mourn these brands even if we won’t miss them.

Who'll be writing songs about Hyundais?

Pontiac was long General Motors’ coolest brand, its Firebird, Grand Prix and Bonneville as hip and relevant in their heydays as any BMW or Honda today. Its GTO was the first true muscle car, its Trans-Am the only legitimate reason to watch “Smokey and the Bandit.”

Saturn once represented hope for a new way of doing business at General Motors, with distinctive plastic-bodied cars and a warm, almost nurturing sales environment. For a time, its “Different Kind of Car Company” shtick worked: Its Homecoming gatherings in 1994 and 1999 drew 75,000 visitors to Spring Hill, Tenn., for a lost weekend of plant tours, country music and sheer differentness.

Hummer? While they might feel as outdated as a coonskin hat, they’re still a lightning rod for eco-terrorists (cops, too) and a raised middle finger to everybody in a Camry. At least you know where a Hummer driver stands, right?

There was a time when Saabs were charming – ugly, obstinate and tough as hell --  but that came long before General Motors entered the picture in 1990. Its offerings today: rebadged GM generics with the ignition switch relocated to the floor.

For good or bad, GM has chosen its horses: Chevrolet, Cadillac, Buick and GMC. Would those be yours?

Too early for going-out-of-business sales

Don't expect a fire sale on doomed brands. There already is one, or close to it.

Once factories begin to be shuttered, the balance of supply and demand begins to tip the other way. Don't wait too long. (If you're curious, you can check out the current offerings from Saab, Hummer, Saturn and Pontiac at MSN Autos.)

GM expects its dealer count to fall from 6,246 in 2008 to 4,100 by 2014, mostly in metro and suburban markets. What it will cost GM to disentangle itself from a politically powerful dealer body wasn’t specified, but it spent more than $1 billion earlier this decade to shut down its 2,800-dealer Oldsmobile division.

GM was the largest U.S. corporation by revenue as recently as 2000. GM held 50% or more new-car sales for decades, peaking at 55% in 1956.  In 2008, that figure fell to less than 22%. Market capitalization peaked at $52 billion in 2000. Tuesday, after GM revealed its survival plans, that figure was $1.33 billion.

Whatever your feelings about Hummers, General Motors or cars in general, it's an astounding fall.
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sad_rocc

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Re: A sad day for Saturn
« Reply #1 on: February 18, 2009, 10:27:31 AM »

http://blogs.moneycentral.msn.com/smartspending/archive/2009/02/17/off-to-car-heaven-saturn-saab-hummer.aspx

I think Saturns are great cars, especially in the salted northeast. No dents, no rust, easy to repair and they're solid, reliable little cars that get pretty good mileage. I test-drove a small wagon with a manual and loved it. I know a few people with Saturns and they all rave about them. I think it was a big mistake for them to totally ignore the brand after making it quite successful and I think it's a big mistake to drop them now.

Saab I'm sad to see go. So much history there, but I hear the cars are not like they were in the '80s. I know they still look pretty luxury and they still have sweet interiors, but that's about all I know.

Hummer going is kinda a given. Pontiac turning into a niche brand and being sold at GMC truck dealerships seems kinda odd, I don't know what that's supposed to me.
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Scott

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Re: A sad day for Saturn
« Reply #2 on: February 18, 2009, 10:43:09 AM »

easy to repair and they're solid, reliable little cars that get pretty good mileage.

As a former Saturn owner, and a person who has worked on several of them, I am calling bullshit to this statement.  If you are talking about little things like spark plugs and regular maintenance items... yes you are correct, but when you get into things like alternators or other mechanical bits, these cars become a MASSIVE nightmare.

You are correct on them being reliable for the most part, but when they break... holy crap are you in for a ride!   I owned a 94 SL2 from brand new until I sold it with 112,000 miles on it.  I had to change the alternator, fuel pump, and brake lines all in the last 30,000 of it's life, but the clutch was still stock when I sold it... and for those of you who saw me drive that car, that is a shocking fact! 
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punkrider99

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Re: A sad day for Saturn
« Reply #3 on: February 18, 2009, 10:52:35 AM »

scott is crying in a corner somewhere right now.
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Barry

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Re: A sad day for Saturn
« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2009, 12:11:17 PM »

scott is crying in a corner somewhere right now.

LOL
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Scott

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Re: A sad day for Saturn
« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2009, 12:16:15 PM »

scott is crying in a corner somewhere right now.

Not even in the slightest... did you even read what I wrote above?
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sad_rocc

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Re: A sad day for Saturn
« Reply #6 on: February 18, 2009, 12:21:18 PM »

I meant easy to repair in terms of body damage. Nobody I know with a saturn has had to replace the bits that you mentioned so I dunno about how hard that is.
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punkrider99

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Re: A sad day for Saturn
« Reply #7 on: February 18, 2009, 01:55:03 PM »

scott is crying in a corner somewhere right now.

Not even in the slightest... did you even read what I wrote above?

yeah i was surprised that you composed yourself so well after such tramatic news.  was it hard to see your monitor through all the tears?
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Re: A sad day for Saturn
« Reply #8 on: February 18, 2009, 02:29:20 PM »

Saturns have been the ONLY GM product I've actually liked... quite sad
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sad_rocc

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Re: A sad day for Saturn
« Reply #9 on: February 18, 2009, 03:00:54 PM »

Looking over the lineup of what they're keeping, Saturn's also the only line they had that had any uniqueness to it. They're keeping saturn till 2011, so maybe something will change by then. I'm surprised there have been no buyers, all that brand needs is some attention paid to it.
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scurvy_bandit

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Re: A sad day for Saturn
« Reply #10 on: February 18, 2009, 06:23:31 PM »

I liked the new Opel **AHEEEMMM*** I meant saturns, but oh well. I agree with almost everything they are doing except making Pontiac a niche brand. I still think they should stop the damn GMC's..fuck.

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MileHighAssassin

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Re: A sad day for Saturn
« Reply #11 on: February 25, 2009, 10:29:20 AM »

I really like the H3, and the H2 actually sold really well, that was until gasoline started costing more than blood.

Saab needs to go, I would like to see GM carry over a couple Saturn vehicles, elsewhere.  Pontiac, I was never really sold on, you can usually get the exact same car from Chevrolet.  I have heard rumors that GM will retain the rights to the H3 and badge it as a Chevy.
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thf944

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Re: A sad day for Saturn
« Reply #12 on: February 25, 2009, 10:35:20 AM »

I would like to see GM carry over a couple Saturn vehicles, elsewhere.  Pontiac, I was never really sold on, you can usually get the exact same car from Chevrolet.  I have heard rumors that GM will retain the rights to the H3 and badge it as a Chevy.

i agree. the astra is actually a cool car for gm to have in america. they should sell it as a chevy or pontiac. the h3 was the only hummer that made sense. it would be nice to see it live on as well, maybe they'll make that h3 pickup thingy after all.
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formulanerd

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Re: A sad day for Saturn
« Reply #13 on: February 25, 2009, 02:10:16 PM »

the astra could definitely be a hot hatch if they worked on it a little.
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VWO4L

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Re: A sad day for Saturn
« Reply #14 on: February 26, 2009, 01:54:16 AM »

maybe they'll make that h3 pickup thingy after all.

They are building it.  I've seen a few of them over the past couple of weeks.  Makes much more sense than the ridiculous H2T with its useless bed.
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VWO4L

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Re: A sad day for Saturn
« Reply #15 on: February 26, 2009, 02:06:31 AM »

the astra could definitely be a hot hatch if they worked on it a little.

Wouldn't even require much work, they just need to import it.

The Opel Astra OPC held the N-Ring class record before the Cobalt SS took it.  They share engines, except the OPC got 240HP instead of the 260HP of the Cobalt.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcH8NLbpmzY
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Re: A sad day for Saturn
« Reply #16 on: February 26, 2009, 05:00:10 AM »

the astra could definitely be a hot hatch if they worked on it a little.

I agree.. I actually looked at a few of them when they first came out and they're just plain boring.  Lot's of potential being wasted
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scurvy_bandit

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Re: A sad day for Saturn
« Reply #17 on: February 26, 2009, 07:28:42 AM »

Also if they changed up the ergos a little on the solstice or skyit would be great! That huge rear view mirror in that tiny windshield sucks, and so do the side mirrors. Oh well...
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formulanerd

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Re: A sad day for Saturn
« Reply #18 on: February 26, 2009, 08:48:07 AM »

the astra could definitely be a hot hatch if they worked on it a little.
Wouldn't even require much work, they just need to import it.

what do you mean they need to import it? the saturn (opel) astra is on the streets now.

and by work on it a little, i mean mostly the looks (though the interior isn't half bad for GM)


and i hope whomever photo-shopped this doesn't work for GM

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sad_rocc

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Re: A sad day for Saturn
« Reply #19 on: February 26, 2009, 10:14:56 AM »

Ugh! I've seen people do that sorta shit to saturns and it boggles the mind. Mainly those SUV saturns. Look, the car is already plastic, it doesn't need any more slapped on it. Speaking of which, if they just left saturn to build on it's image of small, reliable, cheap and dent/rust-free cars they may have been ok. Does anyone look at saturn and say Damn, now that's who I want to buy a 2-seater sports car from! Same with the SUV's. I think GM has their bases covered when it comes to sports cars and suvs. Every one of their brands does not need to cover every segment of the market.

Screw the astra tho, when it comes to hot hatches I want a Fiat 500 Abarth SS. So very badly. Best news is with some increased income, I soon will be able to! Fiat might possibly be coming to the US at Mini dealerships.
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formulanerd

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Re: A sad day for Saturn
« Reply #20 on: February 26, 2009, 10:57:44 AM »

i wouldnt categorize that as a hot hatch, though i've been watching them for some time (the fiat)... i'd like one.


as for the saturn suv argument, i disagree... if i bought any GM suv, it'd be the vue redline.... mainly because the engine ISNT gm, so i know it'd last when GM is gone, honda could still service the engine :D :D. that and its one of the best looking of the bunch (excluding Cadillac, saab)....
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sad_rocc

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Re: A sad day for Saturn
« Reply #21 on: February 26, 2009, 01:50:34 PM »

There's a saab suv? I'm starting to think Chrysler's "niche" marketing of Pontiac simply means they won't make sure there's a minivan, suv, small car, big car, sports car and pickup in their lineup.

The older vues weren't abd imo because they were a little boxy and had a different back end. The '08 models just look like every other non-descript mid-sized suv. I dunno anything about GM motors vs the saturn ones. I just think brands and businesses overall do better when they stand for and represent something rather than trying to be everything.
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formulanerd

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Re: A sad day for Saturn
« Reply #22 on: February 26, 2009, 02:29:54 PM »

There's a saab suv? I'm starting to think Chrysler's "niche" marketing of Pontiac simply means they won't make sure there's a minivan, suv, small car, big car, sports car and pickup in their lineup.

The older vues weren't abd imo because they were a little boxy and had a different back end. The '08 models just look like every other non-descript mid-sized suv. I dunno anything about GM motors vs the saturn ones. I just think brands and businesses overall do better when they stand for and represent something rather than trying to be everything.

actually, i hadn't seen the newest Vue, i dont really like it, so my comment was directed towards the older ones (1 and 1.5 gen).... the 3.6l in the Vue is a honda engine, not GM. (apparently the 08+ may no longer use the honda engine, another reason not to buy)

and yes, there is a saab 9-7x and its gorgeous IMO

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VWO4L

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Re: A sad day for Saturn
« Reply #23 on: February 27, 2009, 05:43:45 AM »

the astra could definitely be a hot hatch if they worked on it a little.
Wouldn't even require much work, they just need to import it.

what do you mean they need to import it? the saturn (opel) astra is on the streets now.

Not the one that qualifies as a hot hatch, that's what part of your post I was referring to.  The 140hp engine in the Astra we get certainly doesn't get my blood a-boilin'
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formulanerd

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Re: A sad day for Saturn
« Reply #24 on: February 27, 2009, 08:34:29 AM »

Not the one that qualifies as a hot hatch, that's what part of your post I was referring to.  The 140hp engine in the Astra we get certainly doesn't get my blood a-boilin'

true, true, but like all saturns, or GM for that matter.... the tame version comes, and then the redline/ss/etc..... if saturns future was secure, there would no doubt be a redline astra with close or the same power as the cobalt ss/tc (what like 260 hp?)
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VWO4L

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Re: A sad day for Saturn
« Reply #25 on: February 27, 2009, 12:26:14 PM »

true, true, but like all saturns, or GM for that matter.... the tame version comes, and then the redline/ss/etc..... if saturns future was secure, there would no doubt be a redline astra with close or the same power as the cobalt ss/tc (what like 260 hp?)

Perhaps, but I wouldn't bet on it.  As it is now, Saturn only barely seemed to offer the Astra.  In fact, for '09, they aren't even building any for the US and plan to sell through the existing '08's instead(http://www.autoblog.com/2009/01/28/saturn-astra-disappears-for-2009/)  They have one engine option and it's one that we don't even get in another US model.  It's not a particulalrly fuel-efficient one either, not with the Cobalt achieving mid 30's MPG with similar HP yet the Astra barely ekes out 32mpg and with the stick shift only. 

Also, in order to get the 3dr version, you have to buy the uplevel XR because that's the only one they sell you here and it's like $2K more than the 5dr.  To make matters worse, that same 5dr is only available as the lower-lever XE model.  Just makes hardly any sense to me.  The cost really hurt it compared to the competition as well.  I think they should have taken a cue from VW and sold the 3dr for less even if it meant taking a loss on it, just makes sense, not to mention selling both trim levels on both versions.  Americans aren't used to paying more for a smaller car than a bigger one and at a $16,500 base for the 5dr(base model, mind you), they have a lot of other intriguing options.

Being a Euro model, GM had a golden opportunity to bring over some(or at least one) of their diesel engines that would slot right in and really have a car that gets great mileage.  Then, they could have offered the diesel, perhaps an engine shared with the Cobalt for a better mileage gas engine, and a Red Line model and had pretty much anyone covered.  They also should have offered any of those options with either the 3dr or the 5dr body style.  Some advertising would have helped too.  They did primarily online advertising for the Astra and no print or TV ads I believe.

As far as the future, who knows.  With Saturn likely going away, I'm not sure I see a home for the Astra in the US.  I think it could be a Pontiac, but with Pontiac skrinking too, that's iffy.  I couldn't see it as a Buick and if it were a Chevy, it would be competiting with the Cobalt(or Cruze in a few years) and it would get outsold 3 or 4 to 1 with Americans preference for sedans over hatches.  I guess it could happen though, but I'm not betting on it.  Then there's also this news that came out today, http://www.autoblog.com/2009/02/27/opel-to-spin-off-gm-will-retain-stake/  Who knows how that would affect things.

Work is well under way on the next Astra though and it looks nice with an interior influenced by the awesome Insignia Sedan built overseas(will eventually become our next Malibu and Aura if Saturn is around by 2012)


We'll first see the Insignia(or it's platform rather) as the 2010 Buick LaCrosse, http://www.autoblog.com/2009/01/08/detroit-preview-2010-buick-lacrosse-breaks-cover/

Here are a few shots of it.  Believe it or not, it's a Buick I would actually not mind buying.




Also, here's the Opel Insignia built on the same platform which again will trickle down to the Malibu, Aura, and G6 if all 3 are still around in 3yrs or so.





That last interior pic is interesting as well.  The instrument panel lights change from white to red when the sport mode is engaged.  I thought that was a neat tweak that you don't see everyday.

In case you can't tell, I'm somewhat of a GM fan  ;D  I've been raised on them all my life.
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sad_rocc

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Re: A sad day for Saturn
« Reply #26 on: February 27, 2009, 04:19:49 PM »

That saab suv is pretty hot. Looks like a wagon rolling on 20"s from the pic tho. I've always thought saabs have been pretty luxurious looking (disregarding '80s ones).
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Re: A sad day for Saturn
« Reply #27 on: February 27, 2009, 05:43:59 PM »

Out of the big three, the one I have the most faith in is Ford.  I have owned 3 Ford products and they never let me down when it counted.  I have owned a few GM and Dodge products too, and I would certainly pick GM over Dodge any day of the week without hesitation, but they are both so far behind Ford it is not even funny.
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Re: A sad day for Saturn
« Reply #28 on: February 27, 2009, 06:04:36 PM »

Out of the big three, the one I have the most faith in is Ford.  I have owned 3 Ford products and they never let me down when it counted.  I have owned a few GM and Dodge products too, and I would certainly pick GM over Dodge any day of the week without hesitation, but they are both so far behind Ford it is not even funny.

I disagree 100%.

I honestly think GM offers the most sound product.

Ford has had some major problems with their last two diesel motors, it's not even funny.

They all have their issues, Dodge is clearly the worst.


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Re: A sad day for Saturn
« Reply #29 on: February 27, 2009, 06:09:03 PM »

I must be honest... I have not had much dealings with either Ford or GM products in the last 3 or 4 years.  The ones I have driven from both of them (typically Gov't vehicles) have been quite nice, but I cannot speak to the everyday ownership type stuff in them.  I certainly think GM is on the right track, and I hope they get things sorted out but as it stands right now I would not buy anything from GM until they can show some long term viability.
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VWO4L

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Re: A sad day for Saturn
« Reply #30 on: February 27, 2009, 06:37:24 PM »

I must be honest... I have not had much dealings with either Ford or GM products in the last 3 or 4 years.  The ones I have driven from both of them (typically Gov't vehicles) have been quite nice, but I cannot speak to the everyday ownership type stuff in them.  I certainly think GM is on the right track, and I hope they get things sorted out but as it stands right now I would not buy anything from GM until they can show some long term viability.

My family has owned nothing but GM vehicles for as long as I've been alive and we've never had any issues with any of those vehicles out of the ordinary.  I truly can't think of any major issues we've had with any of their cars outside of regular maintainance.  I'd have absolutely no issue owning a GM vehicle if I was looking for a car right now.  There honestly aren't many that I like, but I would have no problem owning one from a reliability standpoint.

That said, I think Ford has really stepped up in the past few years and is offering some great vehicles right now as well.  I've never been a Ford guy, but I could honestly see myself owning one if I were given the chance.  Not something I would have said a few years back.  Like GM though, there are only a few I'd consider.
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Re: A sad day for Saturn
« Reply #31 on: February 27, 2009, 06:55:15 PM »

I did get a chance to drive that new Malibu hybrid recently, and even though the outside of it is TERRIBLY ugly, the interior is pretty frickin' cool.
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Re: A sad day for Saturn
« Reply #32 on: February 27, 2009, 11:39:53 PM »

Out of the big three, the one I have the most faith in is Ford.  I have owned 3 Ford products and they never let me down when it counted.  I have owned a few GM and Dodge products too, and I would certainly pick GM over Dodge any day of the week without hesitation, but they are both so far behind Ford it is not even funny.

I disagree 100%.

I honestly think GM offers the most sound product.

Ford has had some major problems with their last two diesel motors, it's not even funny.

They all have their issues, Dodge is clearly the worst.

Like the Isuzu is any better? How about the Detroit diesel? Or maybe the one based off of the Oldsmobile gas engine? The Navistar engines used in the Fords are actually really good engines. The problem lies in Ford "adapting" them for the superdutys. Even then I've never actually seen any problems with them, and I used to manage a small fleet of the 6 liters.

Dodge uses a pretty stout, but extremely antiquated motor. It's tried and true, but it's time to get with the times and create an engine that has a powerband greater than 500rpms and doesn't have the old diesel rattle 'n clank. As much as I hate the Cummins, they're still a better diesel motor than anything GM has right now.

Ford and Lincoln have the only real viable options in cars I'd own and buy right now if I was in the market (outside of VW), with some of the Chevy SS, Saturn and Cadilac models coming in second. I'd rather drive an old Daewoo than anything Chrysler.
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MileHighAssassin

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Re: A sad day for Saturn
« Reply #33 on: March 02, 2009, 10:52:30 PM »

Yes the Duramax (Isuzu) is tons better.  The Ford 7.3 was the shit (in a good way) but everything since has been a piece of shit.

Best thing Dodge ever did was Cummins, worst thing Cummins ever did was Dodge.  loL

My father has several trucks in his fleet of plows and his Duramax (2002) has been rock solid.  He just got a brand new Ford F-350 (gas) and it is a complete DOG.  I told him that it should be a good truck, but when plowing or going over the pass, they are extremely weak in power.  I was seriously surprised at the lack of power.

My step-father has a 2003 that has been trouble free with TONS of towing.  Only real issue is a wheel bearing going bad at 89k miles.  He averages 22 MPG.  Many times he gets 24 MPG.  I know that might be hard to believe but it is a stock truck, with a shell on it (honestly helps with drag), full synthetics in the motor, tranny, etc.  How you drive helps a ton.

Back to the subject.  GM has been producing some great cars.  I am not a fan of the Cobalt but that car set the record at the Ring for the fastest time in a front wheel drive vehicle.  Faster than the last generation M3.  The Malibu is a great looking vehicle, interior is really nice.  Impala in the last few years has been a reliable vehicle.  Uncle has one with 130k miles, all trouble free.  Another car I would not buy but has been a winner for GM is the HHR.  Cheap, reliable and very roomy.  Really nice vehicle really. 

Ford... I honestly don't know a lot about them, but the new Taurus is supposed to be a winner.  I have a 2001 Taurus as a 2nd vehicle and it has been pretty much problem free.  My parents bought it used at about 13k miles.  They gave it to me about 6 months ago.  It now has 146k miles on it and runs strong.  We average about 24 MPG mixed driving and 30 MPG strictly highway.  Only problems other than maintenance items have been the need for a new gas cap, and a cracked coolant bottle (replaced bottle and cap).

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Smokestack

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Re: A sad day for Saturn
« Reply #34 on: March 03, 2009, 08:51:56 AM »

Yes the Duramax (Isuzu) is tons better. 

Still has head issues which is what plagued the Detroit. They're just as guttless too. I've lost track of how many times I've passed a duramax pulling a horse trailer up a pass while I'm using a Ford with a 6.0 that was overloaded with the equipment I use to use to clear ranges. I easily exceded their weight by 5,000lbs or more and they were belching so much black smoke mesquitos for miles were dropping dead.

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The Ford 7.3 was the shit (in a good way) but everything since has been a piece of shit.
7.3 was a hell of a motor, but its replacements are pretty good. Don't knock it because the Dodge boys do. They're jealous.

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Best thing Dodge ever did was Cummins, worst thing Cummins ever did was Dodge.  loL
I think Cummins likes the deal too, otherwise they would have pulled out years ago.

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My father has several trucks in his fleet of plows and his Duramax (2002) has been rock solid.  He just got a brand new Ford F-350 (gas) and it is a complete DOG.  I told him that it should be a good truck, but when plowing or going over the pass, they are extremely weak in power.  I was seriously surprised at the lack of power.

The modular engines that Ford uses are more of an HP engine and less of a torque. Ford hasn't made a real gasoline truck engine since the 460ci v8. All of the big 3 have been doing this with their truck engines so that they can up sale their diesel engines. If that truck has a 5.4 liter I can understand it being guttless. the 5.4 replaced the 351 Windsor and that was always more of a car engine.

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My step-father has a 2003 that has been trouble free with TONS of towing.  Only real issue is a wheel bearing going bad at 89k miles.  He averages 22 MPG.  Many times he gets 24 MPG.  I know that might be hard to believe but it is a stock truck, with a shell on it (honestly helps with drag), full synthetics in the motor, tranny, etc.  How you drive helps a ton.

Good for him, but it doesn't really sound like he uses it as a truck. With a topper and 20+mpg it sounds more like he should be in a car and leave the truck in the driveway until he needs to haul something. No sense in owning a truck and driving it like a Geo Metro. You'd save more money/resources by driving the Geo.

Quote
Back to the subject.  GM has been producing some great cars.  I am not a fan of the Cobalt but that car set the record at the Ring for the fastest time in a front wheel drive vehicle.  Faster than the last generation M3.  The Malibu is a great looking vehicle, interior is really nice.  Impala in the last few years has been a reliable vehicle.  Uncle has one with 130k miles, all trouble free.  Another car I would not buy but has been a winner for GM is the HHR.  Cheap, reliable and very roomy.  Really nice vehicle really. 

There are some GM vehicles I wouldn't mind owning, but there are other companies that have my attention first. I still don't like the general feel and look of their interiors. In some cases it seems like they designed a really nice interior piece and then went with the absolute cheapest materials in production ruining the appeal of it. Looks are subjective, but some look pretty good while others show that GM is still thinking along the same lines as what produced the Aztec...

Quote
Ford... I honestly don't know a lot about them, but the new Taurus is supposed to be a winner.  I have a 2001 Taurus as a 2nd vehicle and it has been pretty much problem free.  My parents bought it used at about 13k miles.  They gave it to me about 6 months ago.  It now has 146k miles on it and runs strong.  We average about 24 MPG mixed driving and 30 MPG strictly highway.  Only problems other than maintenance items have been the need for a new gas cap, and a cracked coolant bottle (replaced bottle and cap).

Ford has been making one hell of a turnaround. With the products they've been putting out it's getting kinda hard to think of them as the average "American Auto Corporation." They just seem to be thinking things through better than the others right now.
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MileHighAssassin

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Re: A sad day for Saturn
« Reply #35 on: March 03, 2009, 11:19:53 PM »

Just because you pass a Duramax doesn't make it gutless.  There is more to towing a trailer than seeing how fast you can scream up a pass.  Fuel prices  have made a lot more people aware of their driving habits.  Controlling that load comes into play as well.


My stepfather uses the hell out of his truck, like I said most of it is towing.  He doesn't beat on the truck like a construction worker would but it sees plenty of dirt roads, some light off roading etc.  They have a 328xi  for when the truck isn't needed.   ;)


Funny you mention the Aztec... many people find that thing ugly while in the same breath will talk about how much they like the X6, lol.


I will admit that until recently and still to this day, many of the GM vehicles do have the cheap interior look.  I do believe that is changing more.

Look at the interior of the new Malibu, pretty impressive. Perfect no, but I see the improvements, I think they make a reliable vehicle these days.



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VWO4L

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Re: A sad day for Saturn
« Reply #36 on: March 04, 2009, 01:29:59 AM »

Look at the interior of the new Malibu, pretty impressive. Perfect no, but I see the improvements, I think they make a reliable vehicle these days.

My parents bought an '09 Malibu(LTZ) back in October so I have fairly good knowledge of it.  The interior does look very nice and is a huge step up from the previous Malibu and any other car interior Chevy has made in the last 20yrs.

However, I don't care for the hard plastic feel of some of the interior bits.  The materials in my '02 GTI feel better to be honest.  How the Malibu compares to its main competitors, the Accord and Camry, I can't say.  I don't spend much time in any of those and have yet to set foot in a new version of either.  But, if comparison tests mean anything, the Malibu is par for the course.

On a side note, I'm quite annoyed by the seating position of the Malibu though.  I also think it's a trait that a number of new cars have these days.  The seating position is made to make you feel like you are sitting higher in the vehicle, I presume in order to give the feeling of a "commanding' view of the road.  Unfortunately, it makes me feel slightly clausterphobic and even with the seat as low as it goes, I feel much too high.  The car does have a sunroof which cramps the headroom slightly but my VW does as well and even with the seat as high as it goes, I have plenty of room in my GTI.   I'm not tall either.  It seems to me that anyone over 6ft tall would have a hard time fitting comfortably into a new Malibu.  I guess I just prefer the feeling of sitting "in" the car as opposed to "on top" of the car.

Overall though, the car is pretty nice with enough gadgets to confuse my parents  :P  Even with the V6, the car will get 28mpg hwy very easily and It's no slouch either.
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Re: A sad day for Saturn
« Reply #37 on: March 04, 2009, 02:52:52 AM »

There is more to towing a trailer than seeing how fast you can scream up a pass.  Fuel prices  have made a lot more people aware of their driving habits.  Controlling that load comes into play as well.


Yeah that's exactly what he said he was doing too.... "screaming up the pass"   I know I sure love it when I have to wait behind a the slow truck creeping up the hill. They give those trucks disgusting amounts of tq for a reason... hauling heavy loads for long distances up hills. Use your right foot and quit impeding traffic.
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