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[SwiftMKIII]

So, looking for some advice here.

Got pulled over a a cou ple days before Christmas for speeding in a construction zone.  Planning to fight the ticket based on the following:

1. Cop stated that he was pacing me at 47 in an 40 in an unmanned construction zone
2. driving a part of Woodmen that the speed limit was 55, then dropped to 40 and I was decelerating, though I was well into the 40 mph zone when I was stopped

My issue is that he stated that he "paced me going 47, though I crept up a bit"  It was midnight on an unlit section of 4 lane (out towards Falcon).  This seems to be a very difficult environment to pace somone, especially from behind.

Anyone think I have any chance of getting this one dropped?

[Nemesis]

So, looking for some advice here.

Got pulled over a a cou ple days before Christmas for speeding in a construction zone.  Planning to fight the ticket based on the following:

1. Cop stated that he was pacing[\b] me at 47 in an 40 in an unmanned construction zone
2. driving a part of Woodmen that the speed limit was 55, then dropped to 40 and I was decelerating, though I was well into the 40 mph zone when I was stopped

My issue is that he stated that he "paced me going 47, though crept up a bit"  It was midnight on an unlit section of 4 lane (out towards Falcon).  This seems to be a very difficult environment to pace somone, especially from behind.

Anyone think I have any chance of getting this one dropped?

No. Unless the officer doesn't show up which is highly unlikely.  You'd be better off just going and getting the points reduced and paying the fine (which I'm assuming is hefty since you were in a construction zone).  Yes, it seems unlikely that he was pacing you out in that area.  However, since it was in that area, I'm assuming that there were only two wintnesses to the event (you and the officer) and unfortunately your account means nothing.  You could go get a lawyer and pay a ton of money to "fight the system" but I guarantee that it'll be a huge headache and end up costing your more money and time in the long run.



 

[Jesus]

Just go and try to get the points reduced... understand you will still pay the original fine.  Fines don't get reduced.

Go make the City of Colorado Springs richer ... fucking nazi's and their cash cow speeding fines 

[SwiftMKIII]

Yeah, I figured I'd fight it anyways.  Just wondering what some of your experiences were.

Another question.  Will the system still report a speeding violation wif the points are dismissed?  Somewhere I got the idea that if there are no points assessed, typically insurance won't "find out".  Sad thing is, I have no idea where I got that info. 

BTW, the officer didn't write the ticket fines as speeding in a construction zone.  He "let me off" on that one.  He did although note it in the comments block on the ticket.  Ticket ended up as a regular 47 in a 40, so like $107 and 1 point I think.

[Smokestack]

It sounds like you got off pretty lucky then. Was it CSP or C/S police that issued the ticket? CSP is kinda weird in that I've never gotten to a point where I've been offered a plea bargain per say. Your court date consists of you walking up to a secretary, her looking through a book and then she states that she'll discount your ticket to X points and you'll pay Y dollars. Usually ends up being the same as if you payed early. Your other option is to speak to the cop again before they set you a trial. The one time I took the option of talking to the cop, I waited from April till October to do so. My time had finally come, but the state trooper had "moved on" and was no longer employed by CSP and my case was dropped. With CSPD you'll go to your appointed court date and get a plea bargain. I've never seen a need to go beyond that.

With the state budget the way it is, you might get lucky and by the time your court date comes around the cop that issued the ticket will no longer be employed.

[Jesus]

It's all about them generating revenue.. that's all they ultimately care about

[Giggidy]

might even be a sheriff. I don't think him writing anything in the notes about it being a cons. zone will hurt. If he wrote you up as not being in one then that is what you signed up for when you recieved the paper ticket. Does not sound bad at all though.

[SwiftMKIII]

El Paso County Sheriff, but the court date is for basically 20 days after the ticket.  The fine is small enough that what I really care about is insurance rates jumping.

[fotograf]

"Insurance companies find out what they want to find out". That's straight from the mouth of a D.A. when I asked her what the insurance company would see.

Honestly, a 1 point shouldn't ding you too badly especially if you have an otherwise clean driving record.

[Rukh]

Honestly, a 1 point shouldn't ding you too badly especially if you have an otherwise clean driving record.

This.

Don't make this into something more than it should be. You got off pretty easy, try to keep it that way. The way you got busted will hold, it is a completely valid method of determining your speed. In my experience, having done a couple ride-alongs, if the cop says he could be writing you for more, he's probably giving you a big enough break that it'd be a significantly higher fine and more points. (Like he gave you a 1 pt ticket for 7 over, when you were in fact going ten over, which is a new fine-step and two points.)

Just do what you can to plea the ticket down, or pay it within 20 days. If you're worried about what your insurance will find out, don't speed in the first place - it's a risk you take.

[SwiftMKIII]

If you're worried about what your insurance will find out, don't speed in the first place - it's a risk you take.

I'm not trying to make this into something big at all.  I'm trying to find out, and if possible find a way to mitigate, how this will effect my insurance rates.

The issue here is that when I am aware of speeding, I accept the risk.  I was decellerating from a 55 to a 40 and got "caught" due to not decellerting fast enough.

I guess my "problem" is that I am willing to accept that I got "Busted" if I am caught speeding, for the entertainment of driving fast.  In this situation, I was "making every effort to drive within the law."  I suppose it all comes down to the law of averages.  I've been driving for 15 years, and haven't gotten caught for speeding in 10, but that one  HURT. 

95 in a 70 in GA in 1998 = $378 ticket, I can't imagine what that would be now 

Honestly, a 1 point shouldn't ding you too badly especially if you have an otherwise clean driving record.

The only other thing on my record was a claim because me and the car behind me in a parking lot hit backing out.  Probably should have been her fault, as I was nearly out of my spot when we hit and she was just barely out, but insurance called it basically "no fault", or more likely "both at fault"  My insurance didn't apy anything our, but either way, it was a claim.

[sad_rocc]

"Insurance companies find out what they want to find out". That's straight from the mouth of a D.A. when I asked her what the insurance company would see.

Translation: "I have no idea, but damned if I'll tell you that."

[SwiftMKIII]

"Insurance companies find out what they want to find out". That's straight from the mouth of a D.A. when I asked her what the insurance company would see.

Translation: "I have no idea, but damned if I'll tell you that."

 

[German Boy]

So to hear your problem. Wish you the best, but with the economy he has to keep his job. Times have come and gone, with the "I will let you off with a warning" stuff. Miss those days. Good luck let me know how it works either way

[Rukh]

I was decellerating from a 55 to a 40 and got "caught" due to not decellerting fast enough.

It sounds like a simple lack-of-understanding issue then. Most people don't realize that when the limit changes, it changes AT the sign. The way I explain it to my students is to imagine a gate extending from the sign across the road. If the limit is going down, you need to be going the new speed by the time you go through the gate. Conversely, if it is going up, you can't speed up until you're past the gate; anything else, and you're open to getting a ticket.

[Giggidy]

Well that is true and i'm sure Jeff is wise enough to know this. If I'm coming up on a lower speed limit, I'll slow down when I see the sign just by letting off the gas, unless it's something like a 60 to a 30 I'm not going to use my damn brakes.... a cop is a real dick if he pulls somebody over while they are slowing down to the limit right as you're going past the sign.

[slownomore]

I think it sucks they can pace you there in Colorado is bullshit.  Here in the horrible state of Pa is inadmissable in court for the sheer fact that yes it is a valid way to determine speed but they look at it differently here.  Police here are not allowed to speed.  VASCAR and air radar or a simple radar gun are admissible ways to determine speed.  Yes we all know police speed but if they pace you here and know you are speeding you'll simply get a "obedience to traffic control devices" fine.  107 bux and no points...  Point is that Colorado may be an amazing state to live but your pigs are bigger douche's then our pigs... Cops here have better things to worry about then some jerkoff speeding down the road.  I passed a cop the other day at 82 in a 65 with cruise on... Never left his spot and I even made eye contact I saw him for that long.  They really only care about speeding if others are around or if you are being wreckless...  If I were you I'd fight it saying he was unjustifibly speeding in a construction zone but luckily he didnt hit you too hard. Best of luck to you man.

(Insert Ice cube "fuck the police" song here.

[SwiftMKIII]

If the situation sounds like this:

It sounds like a simple lack-of-understanding issue then.

... it would seem you missed the part now bolded:

I was decellerating from a 55 to a 40 and got "caught" due to not decellerting fast enough.

Rukh, it seems you have misunderstood the intent of this thread.  I am not trying to debate the law.  I was likely going faster than the limit at the time I was pulled over.  Due to a preponderance of circumstances, the Sheriff felt the need to pull me over.  I was not trying to bash the patrol officer.  I was also simply stating that it seems if he stated he was pacing me, then he doesn't truly have my exact speed, as he would with a radar.  I posted looking for experiences in Colorado Springs that may help in lessening the likelihood of having an issue with my insurance rates being raised.    

[brandonb85]

What does your driving record look like Jeff? Since it was a Sheriff you have the option to go to a county court right? ( I'm small town just making sure) . If your record is clean there is a  99.9 percent chance they will give you a deferred judgement. You pay the fines in full, No points. If you dont get any more tickets for 90 days they drop it completely of your record (saving you the insurance increases). 

I personally got out of a 75 in a 65. I also explained i thought my speedo was off due to wheel size 

Just a thought. It would be nice to choose now because if you do send it in its half of the points as stated on the ticket.

[kutark]

"Insurance companies find out what they want to find out". That's straight from the mouth of a D.A. when I asked her what the insurance company would see.

Honestly, a 1 point shouldn't ding you too badly especially if you have an otherwise clean driving record.

Then the D.A. is an idiot.  Insurance companies order 2 reports.  One is your MVR, which comes directly from the state.  If its not on the MVR, we won't find it.  Thats also why its important to try to get a ticket reduced to something like an equipment charge, or defective headlamp, etc.  As long as its listed as a non moving violation on your MVR, your insurance company won't be able to charge you for it.

The other report is whats called a CLUE report, which is a report generated by a company called Choicepoint.  Essentially all insurance companies report Claims data to choicepoint, claims data only.

Insurance companies can't just make shit up.  They can only charge for what appears on those reports.  Basically once the DOI approves an insurance companies rating policies, they can't deviate from them AT ALL, or they will be fined heavily, and i mean heavily.  Like 250k per incident, etc.  So basically insurance companies don't eff around with that kind of thing.

[Rukh]

Rukh, it seems you have misunderstood the intent of this thread.  I am not trying to debate the law.  I was likely going faster than the limit at the time I was pulled over.  Due to a preponderance of circumstances, the Sheriff felt the need to pull me over.  I was not trying to bash the patrol officer.  I was also simply stating that it seems if he stated he was pacing me, then he doesn't truly have my exact speed, as he would with a radar.  I posted looking for experiences in Colorado Springs that may help in lessening the likelihood of having an issue with my insurance rates being raised.

I understand the point of your thread, but I also am a driving instructor, so I figured I'd help to educate a friend on something you don't seem to understand. After all, if I educate all these other people on how to drive, but not my mates, then what sort of friend am I?

Just so you know, many newer cop cars are equipped with special range finding equipment that allows them to maintain a precise speed and following distance when pacing a car, I saw it in action on my ride-along with the CSP two weeks ago. It's like a little box that emits a beam (radar or laser probably), and sounds a tone that increases or decreases in pitch with changes in distance from the car the officer is pacing. After a couple seconds of pacing, the box flashes a number of the target car's speed on an LED readout - it is as exact as radar and laser. Besides, even without that fancy gizmo, cops are specifically trained to pace and estimate speed accurately. They can't graduate from the academy unless they do it right. CSP troopers have to be able to visually estimate a vehicles speed on sight alone within 3mph of accuracy before they can graduate. Not sure how El Paso Sheriff standards differ.

I don't think you're trying to bash the cop who tagged you. I was answering your original question about pacing holding up in court though, and why your defense that you were slowing down for the lower speed limit (just not fast enough) wouldn't hold any weight in court. Hope that clarifies my responses.

[scurvy_bandit]

Ive had two speeding tickets that I went to court for and asked to pay the fee if the points would be reduced. Both times I walked out paying the whole amount of the ticket and only 1 point. That never showed up on my insurance rates.   

Good luck man. I imagine if you just go to the court date or whatever and ask the officer to reduce it you will be kosher.

[SwiftMKIII]

Rukh, it seems you have misunderstood the intent of this thread.  I am not trying to debate the law.  I was likely going faster than the limit at the time I was pulled over.  Due to a preponderance of circumstances, the Sheriff felt the need to pull me over.  I was not trying to bash the patrol officer.  I was also simply stating that it seems if he stated he was pacing me, then he doesn't truly have my exact speed, as he would with a radar.  I posted looking for experiences in Colorado Springs that may help in lessening the likelihood of having an issue with my insurance rates being raised.

I understand the point of your thread, but I also am a driving instructor, so I figured I'd help to educate a friend on something you don't seem to understand. After all, if I educate all these other people on how to drive, but not my mates, then what sort of friend am I?

Just so you know, many newer cop cars are equipped with special range finding equipment that allows them to maintain a precise speed and following distance when pacing a car, I saw it in action on my ride-along with the CSP two weeks ago. It's like a little box that emits a beam (radar or laser probably), and sounds a tone that increases or decreases in pitch with changes in distance from the car the officer is pacing. After a couple seconds of pacing, the box flashes a number of the target car's speed on an LED readout - it is as exact as radar and laser. Besides, even without that fancy gizmo, cops are specifically trained to pace and estimate speed accurately. They can't graduate from the academy unless they do it right. CSP troopers have to be able to visually estimate a vehicles speed on sight alone within 3mph of accuracy before they can graduate. Not sure how El Paso Sheriff standards differ.

I don't think you're trying to bash the cop who tagged you. I was answering your original question about pacing holding up in court though, and why your defense that you were slowing down for the lower speed limit (just not fast enough) wouldn't hold any weight in court. Hope that clarifies my responses.

Oh...


... that takes all the aggression and sarcasm out of your previous posts. 

[Rukh]

719's most infamous fence-straddler aggressive? Moi?

[kutark]

Also, i would like very much to stress, simply having a point reduction does not mean it wont hit your insurance.  Insurance companies charge a specific amount of points for specific occurences.  These points are utterly different and in no way related to your license points.

For example, you might be charged 3 points for an AAF (Accident, at fault), or a speeding ticket will be 2 pts.  These points are assessed regardless of the amount of the claim payout, and regardless of the speed of the ticket.  This is how the DOI sets it up btw.  So you could get a 6 points speeding ticket, and your insurance would go up the same as if you got a 2 point speeding ticket.  It all just lists as "Speeding" on your MVR.  And thats all an insurance company can charge it as.  A couple of states will have minor and major speeding tickets, but colorado doesnt.

So, if you're going to go to court, make sure they actually change the violation to something other than speeding.  It doesnt matter if they reduce it to 0 points, if it shows up as speeding on your MVR, your insurance will surcharge the policy.

[fotograf]

Thanks for the great info kutark, I had no idea that that's how it worked...

[mjohnson]

This is all good info to know.

I don't really have anything substantial to add, but I do know that I've gotten off REALLY lucky in the past.  I've had insurance with USAA (car/jeep) and progressive (both bikes) for a while now and insurance hasn't gone up with either of them.  Actually USAA went up slightly last year after a minor speeding ticket.  Suffice it to say that either the dude the reading that mvr report is blind or somehow most of my history didn't get reported.  Since that minor ticket I've gotten 3 others.  Two were 65 over and one was 21 over.  I got word that my license is no longer good in colorado and expected insurance to either sky rocket or just drop me completely.  Well, neither happened.  In fact they both auto-renewed my a couple months ago.  Anyway, since the last ticket (almost a year ago) I made some choices that should keep me in the clear of the whole speeding thing for a while.  It actually feels good to obey the law sometimes 

[LOS]

2 at 65 over? How do you still have a license...

[Barry]

generally speaking... if you go to court, the DA will offer you a reduced charg but the same fine... just like Pat mentioned... so you will get a final charge of an "unsafe vehicle" while you still pay the original speeding fine... state gets your money and your insurance sees that you had a tail light out... that way you can contiue to get speeding with no extra insurance costs...

[mjohnson]

I don't have one now, the state of colorado sent me a nastygram saying it is no longer good; but as for the cop not ganking it on the spot and/or putting in in the clink I dunno.  Pretty good at doing/saying the right things when the cs pulls me over I guess?!?    Other than that I really have no idea besides pure luck.  

[RSR32]

I think it sucks they can pace you there in Colorado is bullshit.  Here in the horrible state of Pa is inadmissable in court for the sheer fact that yes it is a valid way to determine speed but they look at it differently here.  Police here are not allowed to speed.  VASCAR and air radar or a simple radar gun are admissible ways to determine speed.  Yes we all know police speed but if they pace you here and know you are speeding you'll simply get a "obedience to traffic control devices" fine.  107 bux and no points...  Point is that Colorado may be an amazing state to live but your pigs are bigger douche's then our pigs... Cops here have better things to worry about then some jerkoff speeding down the road.  I passed a cop the other day at 82 in a 65 with cruise on... Never left his spot and I even made eye contact I saw him for that long.  They really only care about speeding if others are around or if you are being wreckless...  If I were you I'd fight it saying he was unjustifibly speeding in a construction zone but luckily he didnt hit you too hard. Best of luck to you man.

(Insert Ice cube "fuck the police" song here.

It s NWA not ice cube per se.

hahah..

Nobody has it as bad as the people in California...i am from there...and CHP just plain SUCKS...they will pull you over to check your RIDE height if they so desire or to check if your new intake is CA exempt.

amen.

Good luck to you though and to me it seems like you got away relatively easy.....

[SwiftMKIII]

generally speaking... if you go to court, the DA will offer you a reduced charg but the same fine... just like Pat mentioned... so you will get a final charge of an "unsafe vehicle" while you still pay the original speeding fine... state gets your money and your insurance sees that you had a tail light out... that way you can contiue to get speeding with no extra insurance costs...

My plan was to go down and plead it down.  Like I mentioned, not the up front money that bothers me. 

Thanks to all for the inputs.  Never figured this thread would go very far beyond a "uhh, yeah.  they'll let you plead it down" or something.  Glad to get some information flowing around for everyone else when they get in the same situation. 

[Smokestack]

... Glad to get some information flowing around for everyone else when they get in the same situation. 

Like any of us ever use the search button.

[SwiftMKIII]

Like any of us ever use the search button.

I was thinking more of those who have followed this thread 

[mjohnson]

... Glad to get some information flowing around for everyone else when they get in the same situation. 

Like any of us ever use the search button.

diddo