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[nugen]

My stock turbos are blowing oil through the intake, so I finally pulled the trigger on K04's for my 2.7T.  After much research and price matching I went with the AWE tuning stage 3 (-) kit.  It replaces the stock turbo's with K04's, but keeps the factory fueling while adding a new FPR and fuel rail.  The package also comes with GIAC software to get a little bit more from the more efficient turbos.  Once I pay this off I'll add the IC's, and eventually full fueling and clutch.  But for now, this is enough damage to my bank account.

The best part is that since my car still has three weeks of "Certified Pre Owned" warranty left, Phil Long is doing the install for free!   

[toxicavenger]

I had a ? for u about the CPO. So if it is still under CPO they don't pay for parts too? I didn't know how it works. But that sucks that this has happened to ur ride. I think there ia a Allroad on Pooretex for sale that has the same upgrade too.

[kutark]

I would really consider picking up the new intercoolers when you have phil long do the install.  Its approx an 8 hour labor job to have them installed if you decide to do it later.  At a shop rate of $75 an hour you're looking at roughly 600 dollars tossed down the drain by waiting.  Also, i'm assuming this is an S4?  The turbo's are very very tightly fit, and the main reason they typically fail in that car is due to the high heat generated from the lack of space around the turbos.  Your car is going to perform very poorly without better intercoolers.

I couldnt find that kit on AWE's site, but if it doesn't come with new diverter's you'll want to pick up a pair of forge or APR diverter valves, if you dont you can fully expect your stock diverters to be blown within 1 second of hitting the accelerator.

[Brahma]

I really need to invest in K04's and new intercoolers.  I think that would get me the HP I am looking for.  lol

[nugen]

All good input.  CPO would cover parts IF I wanted the K03's replaced with K03's.  Since the turbo's failed and the dealer has to replace them anyway, they agreed to install the parts I provide, namely K04's.  I did consider the intercoolers, they're just so damn expensive!  Am I "saving" $600 by doing it now, or spending another $1,200 by doing it now.  Plus, the intercoolers didn't fail, so they could still charge me for the labor!  710N's are already installed, so I should be good in that department.  Keep in mind that without the fueling, I'll still be running boost levels similar to a stage 2.  No fuel, no boost!

[iamboner]

basically all hes doing is installing a more effecent and more reliable turbos ko3's are junk and should never have been on a s4 anyways i dont know how many sets ive seen replaced when i worked at phil long so whos getting the ko3's that audi is paying for?  ive done this before at audi and i gave the guy the new ko3's that audi bought and he sold them to recover some of the cost of the ko4 fueling stuff

[Giggidy]

periods boner, periods.   "."

[Jesus]

so whos getting the ko3's that audi is paying for?  ive done this before at audi and i gave the guy the new ko3's that audi bought and he sold them to recover some of the cost of the ko4 fueling stuff

There's an Audi tech out there that thinks he just cashed in.

Good point boner...

[punkrider99]

why spend a shit ton of money on intercoolers when you can run water/methanol injection?  with water/meth you get better cooling plus more octane. 

[nugen]

basically all hes doing is installing a more effecent and more reliable turbos ko3's are junk and should never have been on a s4 anyways i dont know how many sets ive seen replaced when i worked at phil long so whos getting the ko3's that audi is paying for?  ive done this before at audi and i gave the guy the new ko3's that audi bought and he sold them to recover some of the cost of the ko4 fueling stuff

Again, great input. I guess I'll have to ask the question. Thanks!

why spend a shit ton of money on intercoolers when you can run water/methanol injection?  with water/meth you get better cooling plus more octane. 

But what happens when you run out of the boost juice?  

[punkrider99]

why spend a shit ton of money on intercoolers when you can run water/methanol injection?  with water/meth you get better cooling plus more octane. 

But what happens when you run out of the boost juice?  

your ecu does what it's designed to do and puts you into limp mode before you even know there's a problem.  i've run my system out of fluid on purpose just to prove how quickly motronic engine management reacts to even the slightest hint of detonation.

[kutark]

basically all hes doing is installing a more effecent and more reliable turbos ko3's are junk and should never have been on a s4 anyways i dont know how many sets ive seen replaced when i worked at phil long so whos getting the ko3's that audi is paying for?  ive done this before at audi and i gave the guy the new ko3's that audi bought and he sold them to recover some of the cost of the ko4 fueling stuff

True, but the situation is this, they're larger turbo's and will flow more.  I wouldnt neccesarily say they are more efficient, thats like saying a GT25 is more efficient than a GT28, its really not, just different sized turbos.  Now, the K04's are certainly better built, higher quality turbo's as they didnt cut corners for cost reasons.

Anyways, if you're going to run stock boost, which i am assuming is not going to be the case since it comes with GIAC software, the 710n's most likely arent going to stay intact for very long, they're still a rubber diaphram style diverter.

The other problem, and this is huge, and given that we're in CO its sad enough.  The S4 already had spectacularly bad heatsoak issues.  Running increased boost is going to make it even worse.  I literally would have to drive like a granny for 5-10 minutes between hard boosting to combat the heatsoak, and that would be in 40-50 degree weather.  Seriously, spend the extra 250 on good quality diverters, spend the extra 1200 on the intercoolers, and do it right the first time around.

[toxicavenger]

don't know if this would fit but it is definitely a good price. http://denver.craigslist.org/pts/503282330.html. sounds like u are getting a good deal though!

[nugen]

why spend a shit ton of money on intercoolers when you can run water/methanol injection?  with water/meth you get better cooling plus more octane. 

But what happens when you run out of the boost juice?  

your ecu does what it's designed to do and puts you into limp mode before you even know there's a problem.  i've run my system out of fluid on purpose just to prove how quickly motronic engine management reacts to even the slightest hint of detonation.

Limp mode = slow, not that an S4 is slow, but you know what I mean.  No matter how quickly the computers intervene, knock sensors are reactive, not proactive.  It only takes a hint of detonation to damage an engine.  Intercoolers are more expensive, but they never run out of goodness! 
Please understand, I'm not trying to bash methanol injection.  I think it's a valuable and cost effective mod for alot of applications.  Seriously, I could refill the reservoir 200 times and it would still be cheaper than new IC's.  I'd love to have it for a trip to the track, but for my daily driver, I try to avoid things with bottles and/or reservoirs that need to be filled or maintained. 

[punkrider99]

not only are intercoolers more expensive, they only cool the air charge.  water/methanol cools the air charge better than an air-to-air i/c can plus it bumps up your octane.  no i/c can do what water/methanol does. 

you remember to put gas in your car right?  why can't you do the same for water/meth?  if you use your factory washer fluid tank to hold the fluid for the injection system then you get a built in low level idiot light.

any other excuses you want to throw out?   

[VWO4L]

if you use your factory washer fluid tank to hold the fluid for the injection system then you get a built in low level idiot light.

any other excuses you want to throw out?   

Then how do you wash your windshield??

Just playing Devil's Advocate here 

I am curious though.

[punkrider99]

washer fluid is nothing more than water & methanol.  you're injecting the same thing into your engine.  sooooooooooooo oo you can use the same fluid to do both. 

[VWO4L]

washer fluid is nothing more than water & methanol.  you're injecting the same thing into your engine.  sooooooooooooo oo you can use the same fluid to do both. 

I had thought so, but wasn't 100% sure.

[nugen]

not only are intercoolers more expensive, they only cool the air charge.  water/methanol cools the air charge better than an air-to-air i/c can plus it bumps up your octane.  no i/c can do what water/methanol does. 

you remember to put gas in your car right?  why can't you do the same for water/meth?  if you use your factory washer fluid tank to hold the fluid for the injection system then you get a built in low level idiot light.

any other excuses you want to throw out?   

I've only just begun!  Can meth injection solve the problem of forcing 17-18 psi through IC's designed to handle just 8-9 psi?  At elevated boost levels stock intercoolers create a significant bottleneck that could increase spool up times and reduce power.  Here's a link to some hard data to that effect.
K04 pressure drop curves as presented by AWE

[punkrider99]

Tests were conducted on our Mustang MD-AWD-500-SE AWD dynamometer, using its integrated boost pressure sensor and data acquisition. Several boost pressure measurements were taken before and after each of the intercooler assemblies and averaged, with a graph of their deltas shown above. Our RSK04 turbo kit will produce boost pressures of ~20psi through most of the rpm range.

Note that the RS4 and AWE Tuning intercooler pressure drops (amount of pressure lost through the intercooler due to flow restrictions) are nearly identical to each other, at approximately 1.00 psi max. However, the stock S4 intercoolers become quite restrictive at high boost levels, resulting in approximately a 2.50 psi restriction to the turbos.

The lower the pressure drop, the less the turbos have to work to meet the chip's boost demand, ultimately resulting in less intake heat.

a 1.5 psi pressure drop difference between stock and upgraded intercoolers?  that's hardly worth how ever many thousands of dollars the upgraded units cost. 

so the k04's have to crank out an additional 1.5 psi of boost in order to sustain the requested boost.  that doesn't sound too demanding to me.  as a results your iat's will be marginally higher.  this small increase will easily be counted by the air charge cooling that water/methanol provides.  typical iat reductions are like 60-150+ degrees f.  i've even seen iat's go below ambient air temps before.

so yes, water/methanol will fix your small i/c problem.

next?   

[nugen]

Alright, I give.  Methanol injection is without equal in the world of cooling.  I'll take some bigger intercoolers now

It sounds crazy, but I'm afraid that I too, might forget to add gas to my car, I guess anything is possible, right?

[Barry]

ouch

[punkrider99]

at least i didn't run out of water/methanol. 

[kutark]

Alright, I give.  Methanol injection is without equal in the world of cooling.  I'll take some bigger intercoolers now

It sounds crazy, but I'm afraid that I too, might forget to add gas to my car, I guess anything is possible, right?

Well played good sir.

Nate, you know i got your back,  but he got ya here :-)

[Giggidy]

Alright, I give.  Methanol injection is without equal in the world of cooling.  I'll take some bigger intercoolers now

It sounds crazy, but I'm afraid that I too, might forget to add gas to my car, I guess anything is possible, right?

Well played good sir.

Nate, you know i got your back,  but he got ya here :-)

Lol what does that have to do with the original dissagreement? People run out of gas, it happens.