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[DutchVDub]

And richard... you should just put a cummins in that bad boy. hellls yeah!!!!!!!

You mean the Cummins 3.9B series motor?  They cost 5000$, I bought my jeep for that.  No thanks.  Besides, looking at the one we are getting ready to Dyno at work I'm pretty sure its too tall for my XJ.  I've only seen pictures of them in Wranglers.  If I do wind up going diesel it'll probably be a TDI from a Passat.

[Smokestack]

And richard... you should just put a cummins in that bad boy. hellls yeah!!!!!!!

You mean the Cummins 3.9B series motor?  They cost 5000$, I bought my jeep for that.  No thanks.  Besides, looking at the one we are getting ready to Dyno at work I'm pretty sure its too tall for my XJ.  I've only seen pictures of them in Wranglers.  If I do wind up going diesel it'll probably be a TDI from a Passat.

I thought about putting a 4BT into my scout, until I heard one on a trail. The rattle and clank of those things are deafening. Not to mention that if they act like the 6's in the dodge trucks their powerband is way too annoying. By the time the turbo finally produces some good pressure you have to shift. A 2L PD TDI has similar numbers to a 4BT( a little more horse but a little less torque) but my concern with using a VW motor is it's a bit light for truck use.

[DutchVDub]

True, but then again a Cherokke is hardly a truck.  Its a unit bodied lightweight as far as SUV's go.  Besides, you can always beef it up.

[Smokestack]

True, but then again a Cherokke is hardly a truck.  Its a unit bodied lightweight as far as SUV's go.  Besides, you can always beef it up.

Yea, I've seen people use them in toyota 4runners and trucks before and they are similar in size/weight as an xj. TDI's rock in sami's though. I'm pretty sure I'd break one in half in the scout though. Although after I remove the 1000lb engine it might have a fighting chance.

[DutchVDub]

I've never seen a TDI in a Zuki.  Most of the guys I talked to when I worked at SpiderTrax were using Turbo Diesels from MK2 VW jettas. 

I look at it this way, if a pansy arsed french built Renault 2.0l TurboDiesel was stout enough for Jeep to put in the XJ stock then a 2.0 TDI should be more than capable.

The S-10 had an Isuzu built 2.2L diesel that produced a whopping 62HP.  Apparently thats all you need to move a 3300lb truck. 

[DutchVDub]

Got bored, did math:

With my 99XJ it costs me almost 50$ to fill up my tank with the nearly 3.00$/gal fuel prices.  Thats for about 16.6 gallons of fuel.  If I only pay 2.00$/gal for the same 16.6 gallons it would only be 33.20$ a tank.  Thats a 16.80$ a week savings.  Ok, now from what I've been told with talking to both FlexTek and Change2E85 I'll be losing about 12% of my fuel economy.  That means I'll be using an additional 1.66 gallons per week.  That would bring my savings of 16.80$ down to 13.48$.  Figuring it cost 650$ for the kit it would take just over 48 weeks to make my money back.  Basically that means it will pay for itself in less than 1 year.  Thats not really too bad. 



So:

Regular gasoline: 16.6gal/wk @ 3.00$/gal x 52wks = 2589.6$ Annual fuel cost

E85: 18.26gal/wk @ 2.00$/gal x 52wks = 1899.04$ + 650$(for conversion) = 2549.04$



That means I'll still save 40.56$ at the end of the year.  After that I'll be saving 690.56$ annually.  Of course thats with some estimation and in a perfectly mathematical world.  Still, I could easily save upwards of 300.00$ annually after the first year.

[VWO4L]

Ok, now from what I've been told with talking to both FlexTek and Change2E85 I'll be losing about 12% of my fuel economy. 

Hopefully, it will only be about 12% Granted, a lot will depend on your driving habits as even regular gas MPG's can vary depending on how heavy your foot is.  But, everything I've read(and I admit I haven't done as much research as you) states that E85 has about 75% of the energy capacity of gasoline.  That should equate to a 25% increase in fuel and also explains the need for higher flow fuel pumps.

On the other end of the spectrum is that fact that E85 is also a higher octane, so perhaps E85 is able to make the same power without having to use 25% more fuel and that's where the 12% comes from. 

I still think though that 12% is a bit of a stretch.  If it were me, I'd shoot for 20% and run the math that way and see if it still makes sense and if it ends up being 12%, that's just gravy.

There was an article in one of the major car magazines in the last year or so where they did a comparison running a flex-fuel vehicle on 100% gasoline and also 100% E85 and compared the fuel economy.  I'll see if I can dig it up. Might give you some additional info.

All that said, I still think it's a great idea and the initial cost seems well worth it for anyone who owns a gas guzzler. 

Will you still be able to run gasoline as well, or will it be converted to purely E85 use?  Sounds kinda dumb, but maybe the computer override won't allow the ECU to compensate when regular gasoline is used?  Just curious in case I look into this in the future.  It would be nice to have a flex-fuel option in case you travel and E85 isn't available.

Edit:  Here's a story that may be helpful.  It's not the exact one I was looking for, but it's something.  It compares all sorts of gas alternatives not just E85.

http://www.motortrend.com/features/consumer/112_0705_alternative_fuel_technology/index.html

[DutchVDub]

It will still allow me to run regular gasoline as well.  I'll basically be turning my Jeep into a flexfuel vehicle.  I talked to a guy at Seypher Automotive who is running the same computer on his Focus (not just any Focus, but one w/ a Cobra V8 and RWD conversion) and he says its worked well for him.  He did advice that I run a tank or two of normal gasoline before switching over to E85 so that the computer can "learn" the various injector maps of the stock computer.  This helps it better recognise how much E85 is in the sytem so it'll work more smoothly.  His only complaint is that if the computer looses power (ex: battery disconneted) it takes awhile for it to "relearn" everything. 

[MileHighAssassin]

I wish the Malibu was offered in an E85 vehicle. 
The new Malibu is a great car, GM did a lot of improvements to it. 
Gm 100k mile warranty with the option to use E85 and that would be a great commuter, just drive it and leave it alone type of car.


BTW...
 From what I have read, when you switch from E85 back to gasoline and then back to E85, your fuel economy sucks.  You really start getting better fuel economy when you drive on E85 consistantly, I think the ECU adapts to the new fuel and makes adjustments.

[arbitris24]

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[VWO4L]

I got bit by this bug, and looked and looked and looked, and I see debate after debate.

the biggest debates I see are quite amusing seeing as our gas has 10% ethanol in it anyway, so even if you're against it, ods are you're running "E10" if you know it or not.

Maybe, I'm a bit confused but are you equating E10 with E85 and wondering why all these modificaitons are needed?

I recalled reading last year or so that we were going to be switching from MTBE to Ethanol for the winter blend around here to reduce the emmissions during the winter months.  But, E10 isn't harmful to engines made to run on gasoline.  They can handle small amounts, up to 20% Ethanol I believe.  It's when you try running beyond that when modifications are needed so that the Ethanol doesn't eat away at your fuel lines and so that your fuel pump can provide for the higher flow required as well.

[kutark]

Roots or Screw type Supercharged 4.0 I6 is the way to go for a trail engine in an XJ.