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[DutchVDub]

I think I'm goinmg to have to yuppie it up and convert my Jeep to E85.  There is a company that makes a completely lug and drive kit for my Jeep.  It costs about 425$ and still allows you to run regular gasoline when neccesary with no I'll effects.  I talked to the distributor (located in Thornton, CO) and to a guy on NAXJA (North American XJ Association) and while you do lose a bit of mileage you also get morew power.  Also, the E85 pump thats down the street frommy house sells it for about 2.00$ a gallon.  The guy on NAXJA said even with the 10% loss in mileage he has been saving money, plus he loves the extra power.  You don't need to change your plugs, but the site that sells it also has a PulStar Puls sparkplug that they said helps restore mileage back towards gasoline levels and also delivers even more more.  I'm going to try and meet up with the guy on NAXJA and check his rig out for myself but I think this will be the next major mod for my Jeep.  Not only does it help my pocket book, it helps the enviroment and CO's economy.  E85 is made and refined in CO.  Plus its like flipping the bird to Haji.

Now I just need to get me a TDI and convert it run biodiesel.  Then my hippie conversion will be complete.  

[Gallep]

A guy in Denver (Denvernoob), that's on Audizine did an E85 conversion on his B6 A4 1.8T with a K04 upgrade and is putting down some nice numbers.

[DutchVDub]

Oh yeah, the website is Change2E85.com

They are local in CO, well local to Denver

[Jesus]

Interesting...
That kits seems to be nothing more than a piggy back computer between the injectors and stock injector wiring harness ... seems almost too simple to be true.

I'm a big supporter of ethanol so I hope this works out for you 

[toxicavenger]

Yeah I am in the process of convincing my wife to let me do the ECU E85 for my SAAB. But so far it has been a tough sell since it is 1k for it!

[methodicalmayhem]

A guy in Denver (Denvernoob), that's on Audizine did an E85 conversion on his B6 A4 1.8T with a K04 upgrade and is putting down some nice numbers.

Pete

Ted's not the only VAG running E85 in the state, just the only one to let it be known on a forum with some info behind it, nor is he doing it to be a hippie like you Dutch. There are 3 that I know of including Ted. Two of which are running perfectly (Ted's B6 and Randy of Autobahn and his B5 Passat), the third is just under going the conversion so all the kinks need to be worked out still (my car). Not sure what gains/losses you can expect with a Jeep but what I have seen/experienced so far is well worth the conversion, plus I wont complain about saving $10 a tank for the performance gains.

[VWO4L]

Interesting...
That kits seems to be nothing more than a piggy back computer between the injectors and stock injector wiring harness ... seems almost too simple to be true.

I'm a big supporter of ethanol so I hope this works out for you 

Agreed, I'd make sure the kit comes with everything you need.  I think one of the biggest problems with switching a car over to run E85 is that you need to replace the fuel lines.  I believe that E85 is more corrosive to the normal fuel lines and can cause issues.

See here for more info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E85_in_standard_engines

E85 can also cause engine damage, since prolonged exposure to high concentrations of ethanol may corrode metal and rubber parts in older engines (pre-1995) designed primarily for gasoline. Post-1995 fuel-injected cars are designed to accept E10 fuel, and may be tolerant of higher concentrations of ethanol to varying degrees, usually up to at least 20%

[Jesus]

Interesting...
That kits seems to be nothing more than a piggy back computer between the injectors and stock injector wiring harness ... seems almost too simple to be true.

I'm a big supporter of ethanol so I hope this works out for you 

Agreed, I'd make sure the kit comes with everything you need.  I think one of the biggest problems with switching a car over to run E85 is that you need to replace the fuel lines.  I believe that E85 is more corrosive to the normal fuel lines and can cause issues.

Yes ..and that's why I said it seemed too simple. .. then again E85 is actually a blend so maybe it isn't as corrosive as pure ethanol.  Don't know and I'm not a chemist

[Smokestack]

Interesting...
That kits seems to be nothing more than a piggy back computer between the injectors and stock injector wiring harness ... seems almost too simple to be true.

I'm a big supporter of ethanol so I hope this works out for you 

Agreed, I'd make sure the kit comes with everything you need.  I think one of the biggest problems with switching a car over to run E85 is that you need to replace the fuel lines.  I believe that E85 is more corrosive to the normal fuel lines and can cause issues.

Yes ..and that's why I said it seemed too simple. .. then again E85 is actually a blend so maybe it isn't as corrosive as pure ethanol.  Don't know and I'm not a chemist

E85 eats rubber. Any fuel lines and seals that contact the fuel will dry out and crack causing leaks. Generally the kits come with viton (sp?) fuel lines. Other than that you just need to richen up the fuel mixture a little.

[fotograf]

I know several people who have converted to E85. They are the only dubs in CO to do so so far to my knowledge and the various performance companies involved with Autobahn Premier are actually writing their programs off of these cars. (all 3 of these were done at Autobahn Premier)
Randy @ Autobahn premier Service in Littleton
methodicalymay hem (Josh) and his Mk4 Jetta
Denver noob and his A4 s-line

The mod is not a money-saving mod by any means. the cost of the equipment and the frequency that you will be filling up (the guy lied, if you used to fill up once a week, you will be filling up closer to once every 5 days. And you better keep off your throttle, E85 burns up FAST) makes the mod entirely a performance mod. I believe E85 is somewhere near 105 octane?

[Rukh]

The mod is not a money-saving mod by any means. the cost of the equipment and the frequency that you will be filling up (the guy lied, if you used to fill up once a week, you will be filling up closer to once every 5 days. And you better keep off your throttle, E85 burns up FAST) makes the mod entirely a performance mod.

I beg to differ. Converting to E85 is not only a performance mod, it is a means to use an alternative fuel source to lessen one's reliability on the oil market. Plus, ethanol can be processed from goods produced entirely within the domestic economy, thereby decreasing our dependence on other nations for fuel. As a bit of a tangent: we now get the majority of our oil from Canada (~859 million barrels in 2006), more from them than the entire Persian Gulf region combined (~807 million barrels in 2006). Part of the reason that fuel prices have gone up so much in the past couple years is precisely because of that, due to the extra refining that oil from Canada's tar sands needs to reduce its high sulfur content.

Anyway, as great a thing as these conversions are, and while I believe ethanol is a great way to reduce our dependence on other nations for our fuel, corn-based ethanol is not the silver bullet that many think it is. There are a great many other solutions that I think would be better to pursue - for a great many reasons.

[fotograf]

The mod is not a money-saving mod by any means. the cost of the equipment and the frequency that you will be filling up (the guy lied, if you used to fill up once a week, you will be filling up closer to once every 5 days. And you better keep off your throttle, E85 burns up FAST) makes the mod entirely a performance mod.

I beg to differ. Converting to E85 is not only a performance mod, it is a means to use an alternative fuel source to lessen one's reliability on the oil market. Plus, ethanol can be processed from goods produced entirely within the domestic economy, thereby decreasing our dependence on other nations for fuel. As a bit of a tangent: we now get the majority of our oil from Canada (~859 million barrels in 2006), more from them than the entire Persian Gulf region combined (~807 million barrels in 2006). Part of the reason that fuel prices have gone up so much in the past couple years is precisely because of that, due to the extra refining that oil from Canada's tar sands needs to reduce its high sulfur content.

Anyway, as great a thing as these conversions are, and while I believe ethanol is a great way to reduce our dependence on other nations for our fuel, corn-based ethanol is not the silver bullet that many think it is. There are a great many other solutions that I think would be better to pursue - for a great many reasons.

This is true. E85 does reduce our dependency on oil at the spectacular rate of an inth of a percentage. E85 will last for a long time, but it is also driving up the cost of everything else that we use everyday.

1. It would take a corn farm the size of Texas to even make 1% of difference.
2. Regular farmers are all moving to growing corn because it makes money, leaving higher demand for other crops, but less supply ie: higher prices
3. What do cows eat? Corn. The price of corn is going up as well because there is more demand, driving prices of everyday items such as milk and meat up.

I'm not saying that E85 will die, it is too government funded, but in my opinion it is far from good for the economy. We should focus more on technologies like Bluetec and ultra-efficient diesel engines, and start drilling our own resources. I believe I once heard that we have more oil under Texas than in the entire Middle East. (don't hold me to it)

[Rukh]

Personally, I agree with what you're saying - to a certain point. Corn ethanol is one of the least efficient biofuels out there. We should be focusing on rapeseed biodiesel if we really want to make a big difference. But the facts are that the corn ethanol infrastructure is already in place, and Americans don't like diesels (for the most part). I'd say we're stuck with corn ethanol for a while, and that's better than nothing (even at minuscule percentages, that's a lot of oil being offset).

I find it amazing that Honda is rolling out a relatively production-ready fuel-cell car next year, and that gives me a lot of hope for that technology. While Hydrogen is not a fuel source, it is one of the best batteries we have, and is a very convenient way to power a car electrically. If we can add efficient means of "producing" hydrogen electrically (nuclear, hydro, wind, and solar power plants), it very well could be the viable replacement that we're looking for.

[Gallep]

If I had a diesel, I would set up a veggie oil filtering system in my garage and run that shit off restaurant oil waste

[Rukh]

You know, I did the calcs on making biodiesel from restaurant waste oil, and once you factor in the cost of the additives, amortized equipment, and your time (collecting, possibly cleaning, filtering, and refining) it comes out to about the same price as dinodiesel per gallon. Since biodiesel is available here in Denver from Blue Sun, it's really not worth it to make your own.

Now, if you're talking about running on pre-warmed and filtered straight veggie oil, that's a different story.

[MileHighAssassin]

I would be interested in how this works for you.  Up in Fort Collins I saw  an E85 pump that was below (I think $1.89) $2 a gallon.  I have heard that your economy hit is closer to 20%, but even at that price it would be worth it.

IRL ran 100% Ethanol this last year.  They are actually getting better power and economy numbers, but I assume they are advancing timing madly to account for the much higher octane rating (I think it is like 114 octane).

[DutchVDub]

I agree that corn based ethanol is not the answer to ending our dependance on oil, but it is a way to help in the mean time.  Personally I wish America would wake up to diesel and especially biodiesel.  I've read in Popular Mechanics that biodiesel is many times easier, faster, and more efficient to make from algae that ethanol is to make from corn.  Beyond that, diesel engines are more fuel efficient to begin with. 

What I really disagree with are hybrids.  Its not a really efficient answer to the same problem.  They cost more to design, pollute more to produce, and rarely perform as advertised.  They're also more maintenance intensive.  After all, the more complicated the machine the easier to it is to break.

[MileHighAssassin]

I agree that corn based ethanol is not the answer to ending our dependance on oil, but it is a way to help in the mean time.  Personally I wish America would wake up to diesel and especially biodiesel.  I've read in Popular Mechanics that biodiesel is many times easier, faster, and more efficient to make from algae that ethanol is to make from corn.  Beyond that, diesel engines are more fuel efficient to begin with. 

What I really disagree with are hybrids.  Its not a really efficient answer to the same problem.  They cost more to design, pollute more to produce, and rarely perform as advertised.  They're also more maintenance intensive.  After all, the more complicated the machine the easier to it is to break.

Agree 100%

Ethanol is not the answer, at least when it is made from Corn, but like corn syrup we like it.... American Farmers.  It is much better to make it from grass, but I doubt that will happen.  Either way it is a step in the right direction. 

I am all about Diesel, and I think in the next few years you will see much more diesel options from: VAG, Mercedes, BMW, GM, Hyundai, Jeep, Ford, etc.

GM is introducing a diesel powered Cadillac in 2008, Hyundai is bringing over a diesel powered Veracruz, VAG and Mercedes are expanding their diesel offerings,  BMW is rumoring a 1-
Series as well as a possibility of their other lineups.  Jeep is expanding into the Grand Cherokee.  GM is also rumored to offer a diesel in the H3.

I think whomever brings a diesel in the 1/2 ton truck market will do absolutely fabulous.  1/2 ton truck that has a 3-4 liter V6 diesel that gets aprox. 30 MPG, and has diesel torque.... I am in.

[VWO4L]

Jeep is expanding into the Grand Cherokee.  GM is also rumored to offer a diesel in the H3.

I think whomever brings a diesel in the 1/2 ton truck market will do absolutely fabulous.  1/2 ton truck that has a 3-4 liter V6 diesel that gets aprox. 30 MPG, and has diesel torque.... I am in.

I'd like one of the Grand Cherokee Diesels.  I actually liked the Diesel Liberty.  I got to drive them a few times.  It was a bit slow off the start until the turbo spooled but then it pulled quite nicely.  I can imagine the larger-engined Grand Cherokee would make for some nice torque-filled fun as well.

Your wish will soon come true, I belive the Big 3 all have V-6 diesel options for the 1/2 ton market coming soon.  Ford has a Land Rover Diesel in use overseas that may make it here and Dodge is considering the use of that same 3.0L V-6 Diesel from the Grand Cherokee in the new Ram as well.  I've seen stories mentioning GM's intentions, but can't find anything right now.

Back onto cars though, I really wish VW had offered the Phaeton here with the 4.0L TDI V-8 they offered overseas.  With the prices the Phaetons are selling for now, you could have a sweet big-ass luxury car that got 30+MPG for a reletively cheap price.

I've also considered looking into a used M-B E320CDI.  It was actually the fastest non-AMG E-Series offered at the time(I think it was only '05 and '06 or so) and gets diesel economy as well.  Would be a nicer commuter and/or cross-country car.

[Rukh]

GM is coming to market with a "small displacement" V8 turbodiesel engine by 2009. IT is compact enough that it can fit in anything that also could fit a small-block.

[DutchVDub]

GM is coming to market with a "small displacement" V8 turbodiesel engine by 2009. IT is compact enough that it can fit in anything that also could fit a small-block.

So a 77 Super beetle? 

Toyota is bringing over a diesel Tundra.  I just wish they would bring a diesel Tacoma.  In Iraq there were Tacoma's w/ 4cyl diesel engines.  The S-10 Pickup and Jeep Cherokee used to be offered with a 1.9L TurboDiesel.  Thats what I want, something the size of my Cherokee or an S-10 with a 4 or 6 cyl diesel.

[fotograf]

This is such a difficult topic because, no matter what we want or think is best, the government will back what they will back, no matter what really is best for the country. They felt pressure to jump on some "green" bandwagon, so they jumped on the one that came first, not necessarily the right one.

I believe that diesel is the answer for the future. At the mpg rates that the new diesels are getting, and the Bluetec, which emits only water,it really is hard to deny diesel as a viable answer for the future.

As far as hybrids, they say that they can recycle the batteries, but to what extent? What happens when hybrids are no longer "in" and all of those batteries just get dumped into landfills?

[DutchVDub]

This is such a difficult topic because, no matter what we want or think is best, the government will back what they will back, no matter what really is best for the country. They felt pressure to jump on some "green" bandwagon, so they jumped on the one that came first, not necessarily the right one.

I believe that diesel is the answer for the future. At the mpg rates that the new diesels are getting, and the Bluetec, which emits only water,it really is hard to deny diesel as a viable answer for the future.

As far as hybrids, they say that they can recycle the batteries, but to what extent? What happens when hybrids are no longer "in" and all of those batteries just get dumped into landfills?

not to mention the amount of pollution that goes into making said batteries.  Its the same the same drawback as purely electric cars. Sure the car doesn't pollute, but what about the power plant?

[scurvy_bandit]

hybrids are a joke. the worst idea EVER in my opinion. I think the best thing the US govt could so would require any vehicle over a certain gross vehicle weight use a turbo diesel mandatory... I mean seriously we have a ford f450 at work that has a piece of shit V-10 in it. GHEY...

If all suv's and trucks made were TD then that would be a start. It also might pursuade the idiots who think diesels are slow to just suck it up and buy a damn smaller car.

[scurvy_bandit]

And richard... you should just put a cummins in that bad boy. hellls yeah!!!!!!!