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SoFarKingFast

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« on: April 24, 2005, 03:05:54 PM »

Ok guys and gals, it has become painfully obvious that I am severly overdue for a brake upgrade.  

I need some opinions on my options though.  Here is what I have found so far:

ECS Tuning Porsche Cayenne 14.1" 6-pot (don't think these will fit)
$2,235



Stoptech 13" 4-pot
$1,795



Eurospec 13" 4-pot
$1,995



BahnBrenner 13" Porsche Boxter
$2,499



Rotora 13" 4-pot
$1,885




I am leaning toward the Stoptech kit right now.  I have a request in to see if Brembo makes a kit for me, as of right now all they have is MKIV stuff.

Ryan
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greggearhead

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« Reply #1 on: April 24, 2005, 05:52:25 PM »

Are all of them besides BahnBrenner using AP calipers?  What are the other major differences between the kits?
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yoogene

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« Reply #2 on: April 24, 2005, 07:49:06 PM »

those 6 piston porsche brakes require a lot of space to fit, i know because the guy that put them on his A4 had to get custom 19" rims made just so he could clear those brakes...the thing is a beast.



but i think it's a bit overkill, unless you plan on stopping from Mach 1, i think you would be fine with any of the 13" brake kits.
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Greg what do you care? You're just gonna go home and beat your dick like it owes you money anyways.

Jesus

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« Reply #3 on: April 24, 2005, 07:54:09 PM »

Don't forget you have to consider wheel fitment as well
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SoFarKingFast

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« Reply #4 on: April 24, 2005, 10:05:57 PM »

Yes, wheel fitment will be a major issue.  I am latheing out some spacers right now for the fronts, and if necessary I can lathe down the 22mm that I have on the rear and put them on the front.

I don't know the major differneces between the kits, that is why I am asking you guys.  Looks like slight variations in size of the rotor (although most are 330mm).  Most, if not all, are floating rotors.

Greg, off topic question, but do you have those Corrado stub axles sitting around still?  I need to measure the bolt pattern so I can make some more spacers for in between the axle and the stub without taking my own off.

Ryan
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Jesus

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« Reply #5 on: April 24, 2005, 10:12:47 PM »

On a serious note why don't you just go with the Audi TT/ 20AE GTI/ GLI 12.3 inch upgrade with some really nice pads?
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SoFarKingFast

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« Reply #6 on: April 24, 2005, 10:22:16 PM »

Are they still one-pot?  I haven't read much about that, I saw a post or two on the vortex, but I don't know any other info.  Are they a direct bolt on?

Ryan
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Jesus

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« Reply #7 on: April 24, 2005, 10:42:08 PM »

You keep your stock calipers and use an adapter kit to fit them to the larger 12.3 inch rotors.
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greggearhead

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« Reply #8 on: April 24, 2005, 11:17:40 PM »

I know I have some stub axles sitting around.  Same bolt pattern.
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SoFarKingFast

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« Reply #9 on: April 25, 2005, 12:57:21 AM »

Quote from: "Pat"
You keep your stock calipers and use an adapter kit to fit them to the larger 12.3 inch rotors.


Hum.  Where does the extra 1" of pad come from then?  

I think the Stoptech kit is for me, much stiffer caliper, larger rotor (13") and 4-pots for even distribution of pressure on the rotor.

I figure the price is worth being able to stop, especially if hitting the track.

Ryan
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SoFarKingFast

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« Reply #10 on: April 25, 2005, 01:03:41 AM »

I have a thread going on the vortex, someone threw these up there:

RPI 13" 4-pot, (Wilwood caliper)
$1395

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Jesus

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« Reply #11 on: April 25, 2005, 04:05:26 AM »

Before you go to straight "baller" status you probably should check on the calipers.  A lot of those "big boy" calipers require frequent rebuilds.

As for your question on the extra 1 inch..it's quite simple actually, all you do is run the correct brake pad for the 12.3 inch rotor.  Next?
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« Reply #12 on: April 25, 2005, 04:47:15 AM »

I haven't read this whole post, but remember one thing. Big brakes mean big unsprung weight, so don't go any bigger than you reall need. I think those $1,300 jobbies would do you just fine.

Those 6-pot Porsche brakes are OVERKILL. They're meant to stop a 5,000lb truck. Your car weights ~40% what that Cayenne weighs.

Momentum=mass*velocity (P=Mv) right?

Since the mass component is an order of magnitude larger than the velocity component, its going to be the driving force in the amount of momentum you need to affect. I think I 13.1" setup with some nice calipers, stainless lines, and good pads/fluid will work just fine.
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« Reply #13 on: April 25, 2005, 04:50:33 AM »

Also consider this...

Brakes dissipate mechanical energy by converting it to heat energy. But, a rotor/pad combo need to be a certain temperature to efficient. Too big of a setup (overbraked) will dissipate energy too fast, keeping your brakes below the optimum operating temp. When you drop your efficiency, you're not getting any benifit from the added weight/complexity.
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LOS

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« Reply #14 on: April 25, 2005, 07:52:42 AM »

Yes go w/ tt upgrade... the 12.3's should stop nicely on that car.  And get some stainless steel lines w/ slotted rotors.   Or you could go w/ R32 brakes... those are 13's.... but those are gonna cost a penny too
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SoFarKingFast

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« Reply #15 on: April 25, 2005, 07:55:24 AM »

Both good points Scott, which is why I like the Stoptech kit a lot, they go to great lengths to ensure that the brakes will work with your rears still and you are not overbraking you car.

Ryan
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Jesus

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« Reply #16 on: April 25, 2005, 08:38:50 AM »

Let me throw this out there again..before you go big baller on the brakes (which you really don't need anyway) start asking the companies that offer the kits about wheel fitment issues.

I recently did a little research on a brake upgrade for the R32 (yeah I don't need it, it was for the bling factor) and almost every company either couldn't tell me about wheel fitment issues OR they stated that you had to run some crazy 10mm spacer and what not.

I'm going to reiterate again my recommendation to go with the 12.3's.  Get some good pads, rotors, stainless lines, and fluid.  You've got nothing to worry about.  And you've got a helluva lot more money left in your pocket.
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SoFarKingFast

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« Reply #17 on: April 25, 2005, 09:04:01 AM »

Don't worry Pat, I am hearin' you.  I have an e-mail in to Stoptech about fitment for MK3s right now.

I am making spacers right now, so that is not a big deal.  Fenders can be rolled.

Quote from: "Pat"

I recently did a little research on a brake upgrade for the R32 (yeah I don't need it, it was for the bling factor) ...


And his too is another reason.  I figure I need an upgrade regardless, might as well get some bling while I am at it.  Yes, I know I am going to pay, but what do you always say about that....?

Ryan
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Jesus

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« Reply #18 on: April 25, 2005, 09:13:25 AM »

See you didn't say that you were doing it for the "shocker" factor as well...now I understand.  Makes perfectly good sense  :giggle:








And yes I have been known to say that "You gotta pay to play" or.. "You gotta have the cash to have the flash"  :-P
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SoFarKingFast

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« Reply #19 on: April 25, 2005, 12:03:02 PM »

I love the lecturing I am getting on the vortex...

I have had a guy tell me spending 2K on brakes is STUPID.

A guy wondered how big brakes will help me stop faster than stock.

Another one told me that guys over 400whp DOWNGRADE their brakes, then he told me that if, "your having trouble stopping to avoid hitting something on a regular basis, you need to check when and where you are speeding."

I love the vortex.

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1955723

Ryan
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The Asshole

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« Reply #20 on: April 25, 2005, 01:16:17 PM »

from the CIS to digi conversion thread    


i plainly and clearly stated, that under normal [HEAVILY STRESS THE WORD NORMAL ], daily driving conditions, and on normal roads at normal speeds, your factory brakes and factory brake sizes are more than adequate to do the job. they were engineered to stop your vehicles weight, at its maxium speed in a safe distance. modding your engine to twice the normal power output will not drastically change your vehicles top speed, which is limited mechanically via your gearing ratio.

that being said, under NORMAL road going conditions, the only brake upgrades that will be needed for a modded/heavily modded car will just be moderate brake upgades: like slotted/CD rotors, stainless lines, good pads and a higher DOT rated fluid will suit your needs just fine.

if during daily driving conditions, you, more often then not,  drive your car hard,  flooring it, speeding and constantly wait till the very last second to SLAM on your brakes to stop at every light, then you might want to do stronger calipers and larger rotors. to alleviate brake fade.
if you use your modded car on the track/autocross etc. then you are also a good canidate for major upgrades.

*****also if you are going to be using your brakes for track use, then you might want to look into buying brakes that were designed for track use, MOST of  the kits you see clearly state that they are NOT intended for track and racing conditions/use.*****

basic point,
the nesesity[/b] of upgrading your brakes depends on 2 factors
1) how you drive your car
and
2) what you use your car for,
normal use,
daily driving w/ occational fun,
bling factor,
 street/strip/track
  or
 strip/track only

that is all...
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For what it's worth..and this fucking hurts real bad to say this... I'm gonna have to agree with Jimmy.

BlackJetta

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« Reply #21 on: April 25, 2005, 02:47:34 PM »

I had a friend with the wilwood set up and a friend with the
stoptech set up.. Stoptech lasted longer and worked better.

Just my .02
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SoFarKingFast

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« Reply #22 on: April 25, 2005, 03:25:58 PM »

Quote from: "BlackJetta"
I had a friend with the wilwood set up and a friend with the
stoptech set up.. Stoptech lasted longer and worked better.

Just my .02


That is good info, thanks.

You want good info though?  Stoptech e-mailed me back with their sizing chart...then e-mailed me again later to let me know they show military support with a %25 discount...

That is a $450 discount for you non-math people...

I hope I can make them fit now!  

Ryan
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Scott

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« Reply #23 on: April 25, 2005, 05:28:52 PM »

wow that is SWEET!
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SoFarKingFast

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« Reply #24 on: April 26, 2005, 11:23:34 AM »

Quote from: "Colorado16v"
wow that is SWEET!


No doubt about that.  

Paying attention Pat?

Ryan
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